[Feature: Sustainable Consumption] Roundtable Discussion: How to Change Consumption to Realize the SDGs

Today, I would like to talk with everyone about the theme of sustainable consumption. A topic often raised in this area, particularly regarding food, is food loss (food waste). The "Act on Promotion of Food Loss Reduction" was recently passed in the current Diet session, and I believe various initiatives will be moving forward from here. Mr. Takahashi won the Grand Prix at the Japan SDGs Awards in this field last year, and his business is attracting a great deal of attention.

Furthermore, something we all feel close to is the fashion industry. Sustainable fashion that is kind to the earth is becoming understood through the concept of "ethical fashion." This May, fashion model Ms. Tominaga was appointed as the Consumer Affairs Agency's "Ethical Lifestyle SDGs Ambassador." I believe it is very important for someone as famous as Ms. Tominaga to firmly address these issues and help people recognize "ethical fashion" and "sustainable fashion" as something stylish.

And I believe the role of Ms. Okamura, who is leading sustainable and ethical consumption from the administrative side, is extremely important.

First, Ms. Okamura, could you please give us a brief explanation of the Consumer Affairs Agency's initiatives?

At the Consumer Affairs Agency, we define "ethical consumption" in our Basic Plan for Consumers as "consumption behavior that considers people, society, and the environment, including regional revitalization and employment." To make it even easier to understand, we promote it as "consumption activities where each consumer considers the resolution of social issues relevant to them and supports businesses working on those issues."

As mentioned, the "Act on Promotion of Food Loss Reduction" was passed in this Diet session. It will come into effect within six months, but the Consumer Affairs Agency has already taken significant action regarding food loss in cooperation with relevant ministries. In 2013, we created a logo (Loss-non) and began nationwide awareness activities. Over the last two or three years, media coverage of food loss has also increased.

With this momentum building, the law to promote food loss reduction was passed unanimously. Since October is Food Loss Reduction Month every year, we are currently moving to finalize specific preparations for implementation with a target of this October.

The current status of food loss is 6.43 million tons per year (as of 2016), about half of which comes from households. This translates to 51 kilograms per person.

So, a massive amount of food is going to waste.

That's right. Since the Consumer Affairs Agency is a government office that exists for safe and secure living, we believe that a safe and secure life must be sustainable.

Therefore, we have carried out various activities to realize a sustainable society. The start of the SDGs (Sustainable Development Goals) adopted at the UN Summit in 2015 integrated these activities, and it was a good opportunity to collaborate with various people. Participation is now being sought from people who were not previously involved in national policy-making, which provides diversity to the "future design" that is the work of government offices.

The Consumer Affairs Agency exists between companies (businesses) and consumers. In other words, it is most efficient for companies to do things that are supported as a business. Therefore, to encourage companies to practice management that values consumers—who are all members of society—we started an award for excellent examples of consumer-oriented management.

Mr. Kanie joined us as a selection committee member, and last year we held the first awards for consumer-oriented management. Although it is an activity that has just begun, we have created and are promoting a platform for consumer-oriented management in cooperation with business and consumer organizations. We also use "sustainable management" as a nickname for this.

So you have been very proactively doing various things since before the term SDGs became widespread, and now they are taking shape.

The goal of the Consumer Affairs Agency is to promote "correct consumption." Since we are originally an economic agency, we send out the message that "your choice today, when shopping as an economic activity, will change the future of the world."

In that context, you asked Ms. Tominaga to be the ambassador.

Yes. The reason we asked Ms. Tominaga is that, as Mr. Kanie said, by having someone with high influence like Ms. Tominaga share our aspirations and activities, we want everyone to feel that thinking correctly and choosing what to buy is "stylish."

If "stylish" is hard to understand, "wonderful" is also fine, but we want to communicate to all generations that there is significance in practicing correct consumption. Looking at Ms. Tominaga's activities so far, I felt she is someone who exerts her strength for the right values, which is why I asked her to become the ambassador.

Of course, as a top model, there is the aspect of people looking up to her as someone wonderful, but I expect the significance of this activity to spread by having her speak not just about the world of fashion, but about lifestyle as a whole.

Thank you. As Ms. Okamura says, the idea that "correct consumption is stylish" is exactly what brands in the fashion industry themselves are aiming for now. The meaning of "luxury" is currently undergoing a change.

Until now, trendy items were created every season, and wearing those new things was considered luxury. In short, I think luxury was perceived only as satisfying human desires, but now people are choosing brands that support the background behind the products, such as humanitarian aid or environmental issues.

And people are starting to think that "buying such brands is true wealth." We are entering exactly that kind of era now.

I also think the emergence of the term SDGs is very significant.

We are entering an era where people living their daily lives must also enter the circle of sustainable and responsible production and consumption and participate themselves.

Regarding the issue of food loss, I believe "correct consumption" is also important. Food loss is a problem for the entire supply chain, but on the other hand, the way consumers shop is also a huge factor.

Until now, emphasis was placed on things like "what a beautiful color this tomato is," or shape and price. If a customer complained about a bruised potato, saying "Why are you putting this out?", supermarkets would stop displaying them. However, in reality, only a small fraction of people actually think that way.

That's true.

Most Japanese people generally buy things without complaining, but at store manager meetings, they are influenced by the voices of about 1% of the total who say, "The tomatoes aren't a beautiful color." When that happens, the food that gets rejected creates more and more loss.

Therefore, it would be good if consumers said, for example, "I'll buy these bruised potatoes if they are 30 yen off." An izakaya I go to serves leftover sashimi garnish with dressing as a service if you return it, but they were able to do that because a consumer suggested it. If the buyer doesn't say anything, it just gets thrown away.

It is very important for consumers to communicate what kind of things they want to buy. I believe that will change the world.

I also try to choose fair trade bananas, but they aren't sold in many places. There are also few marks that make it clearly identifiable. I think I'm the type who chooses carefully when buying, but mothers out there don't have much time, so when they go shopping at a nearby supermarket, they tend to just buy what is there.

Ultimately, there is a lack of information. We are in a situation where people can only judge based on the price and appearance of what is currently on display. A while ago, for example, a greengrocer in a shopping district might have said, "These tomatoes have a bit of a bad shape, but they're organic so they're delicious," or "They're in season and tasty, so I'll give you two extra," which I think actually eliminated loss.

I see, that's true.

In the end, the lack of communication between consumers and the distribution side creates a gap, which I think is one factor causing food loss.

If what consumers really want is safety, taste, and healthiness, it would be better for them to say things like, "I want you to post photos where I can see the producers' faces," "I want you to think about the packaging," or "I want you to increase QR codes that show origin information."

Everyone says they can't change things with just their own power, but looking at store manager meetings, the voice of a single consumer is very loud, and they are swayed by that voice. Rather, I think the distribution side can be changed quite a bit by people speaking up.

It's important to create a place where opinions are reflected. Something like a suggestion box might be good, and SNS might make it even easier to speak up.

That's right. Also, compared to the past, vegetables and other foods can be eaten anytime 365 days a year, so it has become harder for consumers to realize the value of food and the difficulty of production. And because the distribution side hates being complained to, they keep items on display at all times. There are parts where loss occurs because of that.

In that sense, it is also necessary to properly understand the actual sites of food production. I think it's important not just to talk about food education, but also to have education and awareness activities where people experience or visit various producers.

In Europe and other places, it is young people who are actively tackling the problem of food loss. Members in their 20s, such as university students, are currently very active in doing things like "Disco Soup," where everyone listens to music while making soup out of leftover food and giving it to passersby.

Fashion is the same. While young designers create their own collection lines, they also create recycling lines. Young people definitely have a higher sensitivity toward ethical issues.

They have grown up being told about "environmental issues" since they were born. My son is the same, but people in their teens are very conscious.

My company has a business that turns leftover food into fermented feed, and young people come to visit the factory. University students were visiting today as well. When I talk to them, it's not an era where they just want to become rich.

For example, I feel there are many young people who find fulfillment in things like having an interest in a certain social issue and wanting to solve it.

They have a high awareness of "protecting our one and only Earth." I learned recently that junior high school students today normally learn about things like "sustainability" and "sustainable" in their civics classes and get to know the SDGs.

That's wonderful.

That is important. Actually, I think parents often study things because their children told them to, rather than studying on their own (laughs).

High school students come to our factory every week by bus on school trips. Instead of going to Kyoto or Nara, they come all the way from the Tohoku region to our factory in Sagamihara. They tour the factory in the morning, then return to their hotel and split into consumer teams and food factory teams to do workshops on how to solve problems.

It seems high school students today are more interested in social issues than in temples. I think things will head in a good direction as such young people enter society in the future.

I was having a conversation with a company president before coming here today, and when you look at the words of any company's founding philosophy, it doesn't say they started the company just to make money; it says "to solve some kind of social issue."

So, solving social issues must absolutely be there as a purpose. However, as they continue the company, that part fades and making money becomes the priority. Since that is the starting point, I think young people are thinking with purer eyes.

We hire new graduates every year, and our turnover rate is zero.

The work itself involves things like sorting through food waste, and it's a fairly harsh workplace. However, at morning assemblies and staff meetings, I constantly talk about how much the initiatives they are doing contribute to society and how these things change the systems of the world, so they seem to work with a sense of fulfillment.

It's said there is a labor shortage now, but people who want to work for us come constantly, so we have never spent money on advertising for recruitment. And no one quits. I believe that's because we are communicating that we intend to do this part in order to create a sustainable society from now on.

I see. That's amazing.

Originally, I had no awareness of the term SDGs at all. However, "sustainable society" has been talked about ever since I was a student, and it's just that the UN adopted it in 2015. So I think there have always been many people who feel that "it will be difficult from now on unless we make the world sustainable."

The SDGs "visualized" that.

Ms. Tominaga, when did you first learn about the term SDGs?

Actually, it was when I met Ms. Okamura, so it's quite recent.

Luxury brands make things correctly in traditional ways so that the livelihoods of craftsmen can be sustained, so the prices inevitably become high.

And they make things so as not to waste them, and use them carefully. They are things with dreams. I learned that people in fashion are also evolving to meet modern needs, and I thought Ms. Tominaga would be a perfect fit as an ambassador.

So it coincided with what you had been doing until then?

Yes. Even within the fashion industry, "ethical" movements started appearing here and there around the 90s. Yoshiko Ikoma, who is the president of my agency and a fashion journalist, has been communicating this in her magazine for about 10 years.

JOICFP, an international cooperation NGO for which I serve as another ambassador, is an organization that protects expectant mothers in developing countries like those in Africa. They have been active since around 2010, and I had started to pay attention to various things.

Until around 2010, I was constantly traveling for collections in New York, Milan, and Paris. Sometimes people from animal rights groups would hold up placards saying "NO FUR!" and come onto the runway naked. Issues about not using fur or animal slaughter were already being talked about back then.

At the time, I wondered "Why go that far in a fashion setting?", but soon after, various activities began, and I felt that the times were moving in an ethical direction.

At the time, I think it was sometimes perceived as the actions of only a few people doing something intentionally radical. However, food loss reduction and ethical fashion are very important for ordinary people as well. So, rather than a method that conflicts with society, if we move little by little in a more correct direction starting from what we can do now, that is ultimately the most certain way.

I think we have entered an era where we must do so. Consumers are also starting to understand that quite well.

So, it's just a matter of how to choose those "correct" products.

I think there are various ways. For example, I think it's fine to buy something a bit expensive and, in exchange, properly repair it even if it frays and keep wearing it.

Also, for example, this business card holder was made in Africa using the hides of animals used for meat. I think things like this use a lot of CO2 when transported to Japan, but on the other hand, they protect the livelihoods of people in developing countries and are made without unnecessary slaughter.

Alternatively, in certain regions of Japan, there are places that make things "correctly" while practicing sustainable raw material use and management, such as using local materials, minimizing waste, or using scrap leather. Therefore, I don't think there is just one answer, but rather various approaches.

I agree. Even if you don't know that background, loving one item for a long time is more sustainable than constantly buying cheap things.

A towel manufacturer called Hotman apparently created a towel that can be used for 30 years because they wanted to deliver their products directly to consumers, as the fibers they produced were being processed and sold in ways they weren't happy with. I heard that wholesalers told them repeatedly, "You won't be able to sell many that way," but it is a very good towel made of 100% fair trade cotton.

That company's sales are growing tremendously. Even without advertising, people around them act as voluntary sales agents through word of mouth, saying, "This is amazing. It's a towel that really lasts 30 years." Because of that, orders keep coming in, and there are apparently companies that buy 10 million yen worth of towels.

Precisely because it is fair trade, they have sustainable production on-site and a stable supply of raw materials. They make towels without using any chemicals, which is very good for the skin, so they are apparently excellent for people with allergies as well.

The trend of consumer-oriented management and ethical consumption is for consumers to buy products and services created by people in such companies at prices they are satisfied with. Consumers can buy because there are companies that make good things. Companies grow because consumers support and buy from them.

I imagine many corporate executives read Mita-hyoron (official monthly journal published by Keio University Press), and I have great expectations for Japanese companies. I think the technological capabilities of Japanese companies are truly wonderful.

I think so too.

Making it possible to do things that haven't been done before is exactly what innovation is, and I believe that becomes a business.

The SDGs are goals agreed upon by the entire world, so everyone should be heading toward them. If that's the case, when something new becomes possible, a world should come where that starts to sell. Conversely, if that doesn't happen, the Earth will cease to exist.

That way of thinking is very important for the SDGs. Since the Industrial Revolution, the world has run with a priority on GDP and the economy, which has created various distortions. I think the idea of "let's do something about that" lies at the root of the SDGs.

I feel that unless we figure out how to move away from mass production and mass consumption, and move toward a direction where everyone properly creates good things in a win-win manner and everyone uses them, things will get difficult for the Earth.

That's true. I think it's particularly common in the apparel industry, but as price competition intensified, it became commonplace to build cheap factories overseas, produce in large quantities with low wages, and sell cheaply. But on the other hand, Japanese companies have wonderful technology as mentioned earlier; major brands like Hermès use Japanese knit factories or denim from Okayama.

Japan has that kind of manufacturing technology. I think it would be good if we returned a bit to a model where Japanese brands sell things made in Japanese factories, rather than having factories abroad. We should practice local production for local consumption in apparel as well. In fact, there are young designers who create brands through local production for local consumption by dealing directly with factories without going through wholesalers, delivering products to consumers while reducing costs as much as possible.

I feel that if we reconsider the nature of companies and brands with the mindset of "Japanese products in Japan," it would lead to something wonderful.

I think things like regional revitalization can also be achieved within that context.

This is a light-powered watch made by a Japanese company, and it can store energy not just from sunlight but also from LEDs.

With the technology of Japanese companies, it has become this thin, and the belt part is Nishijin-ori, a traditional craft made in Japan. Furthermore, they are thorough about not discharging chemical agents when washing during the manufacturing process.

So it's good for both the body and the environment.

I pushed myself a bit to buy it, but I can just make up for it by refraining from buying other things.

Lifestyles probably won't all change at once. However, things should change even if you are just conscious for one out of every ten purchases. If you like chocolate, and you know that this cacao was picked by an African child who isn't going to school, I think you should just choose a different product.

If each consumer chooses responsibly, I think there can be many different methods. And if Ms. Tominaga tweets that she is "doing this kind of thing," there will be many people who think, "Oh, I see" (laughs).

That's right. Rather than us doing it, if Ms. Tominaga does it, it becomes a matter of "that's cool."

I hope corporate executives will think about lifestyles themselves with an attitude of creating a more sustainable society. We also need a platform where various options are presented and can be easily understood.

At the very least, we want to make our own informed decisions based on correct information where it is available.

I don't want to engage in irresponsible consumption. Right now, that kind of information isn't very visible, is it?

On the other hand, there's also the aspect that information is overflowing. There's a flood of various POP displays, marks, and labels, and I think it can be hard to judge which ones are truly meaningful.

I only understood the meaning of the "Yuton" label for the first time after hearing about it from Mr. Takahashi the other day.

What is Yuton?

The Odakyu Group sells pork from pigs raised on "eco-feed"—surplus food turned into feed while ensuring safety and quality—under the name "Yuton."

Sometimes I buy it for the time being thinking it might mean "excellent" (yuryo), but I do feel like I'd like it to be made a bit easier to understand.

I think organization is necessary.

I think just putting an SDG mark on it would be fine, though.

A law was passed regarding food loss, so won't various things be possible from now on?

That's right. We want to create a highly sustainable world by establishing a "recycle loop" system where food waste that inevitably occurs is composted or turned into feed, and the vegetables, rice, and pork raised there are sold. If possible, I would like to unify the marks and contribute to a sustainable world by having consumers choose such products.

For example, even for restaurants, it would be good if there were something like a Food Loss Reduction Michelin, so we could know which delicious shops are contributing to food loss reduction.

That sounds great (laughs).

Nowadays, even though it costs about 3,000 to 5,000 yen to go out to eat, the restaurant industry where you can eat proper food is growing significantly. Chefs from such restaurants have told us that eco-feed pork is very good, and they have started using it.

On the other hand, in the grading of pork at supermarkets, what defines "good meat" is how easy it is to slice, how good it looks, and how high the yield is.

What is yield?

In short, it's about getting a lot of meat. If there's a lot of fat, you can't get much meat, so that's called poor yield. But the safety, healthiness, and taste that consumers are looking for are not reflected in the grading at all.

So it's not based on the consumer's criteria.

The grading is from the perspective of ease of distribution and ease of sale. Farmers often say, "I actually want people to eat this, but wholesalers won't buy it, so we just eat it ourselves." This happens frequently not just with pork, but also with vegetables and fruit. In that sense, I think there is room for improvement in how information is presented.

Ms. Tominaga, do you have your own criteria for buying food or choosing clothes?

Regarding food, I basically choose pesticide-free items. Also, I've stopped buying things just because they are cheap.

So you buy proper things from proper places.

Yes. Also, I always check the ingredient label on the back.

In the case of women, isn't it almost everyone who looks at the back?

My wife is slow when we go together, too. She's staring at it intently (laughs).

Exactly. It takes time.

I've made it a point to go for study purposes since coming to the Consumer Affairs Agency, but I don't buy much food at supermarkets. You can check things yourself if they are sold on the internet.

Supermarkets are increasingly trending toward "cheap and nasty" now, and for both beef and pork, it's becoming a situation where importing from overseas is seen as cheaper and better. I hear there's a movement among Japanese producers to stop wholesaling to supermarkets.

With the advent of the internet society, more people are buying directly.

That's right. Because they want people to buy good things directly, there's a movement to sell online themselves or create direct sales offices.

In that case, there's also the possibility of reducing the CO2 emitted during the distribution in between.

Yes. So, if consumers buy directly from producers, it's more profitable for the producers, and consumers can get good, identifiable products at a reasonable price. I think that's the direction things will take from now on.

I also mainly order food over the internet. I go to the supermarket for things I'm missing there.

Working women sometimes want to check things in the middle of the night. The younger generation often has to make various compromises while working, so they can't easily go to the supermarket in the evening.

So it's already linked to women's advancement in society.

The SDGs have various goals, so there are contradictions, but I want to do what I can, and it's good for us consumers if more business operators like Mr. Takahashi increase throughout Japan.

Both consumers and companies are starting to realize that over-consuming now to the point of pushing the burden onto future generations is not right in the long run. In fashion too, I want to be able to buy things that are made correctly so that people can wear them with a good conscience.

That's true. I've also started to care a lot about clothes recently. But then, I conversely end up not knowing which ones to choose.

There are a few sites that collect brands doing ethical activities or sites created by stylists, but it feels like they haven't really taken root yet.

There are also organizations working to make sustainable labels better known.

Also, it would be good if things like "this company is making these efforts" were a bit more visible. Right now, it feels like it's just written briefly at the back of corporate reports. For example, it would be easy to understand if there were things like a three-star or two-star sustainable rating for a company.

Nowadays, there are even suits made from plastic bottles.

It will take time until they reach an affordable price, so I hope that companies and we adults who bear responsibility for the next generation will work hard to create good things and communicate that.

Right now, to reduce plastic waste, the industry has started moving by declaring that they will eliminate plastic bottles by a certain point in the 2030s.

Even if it can't be done immediately, declaring "we will do this by such-and-such time" is very important. If it can't be achieved, I think we will gradually understand that it might be due to the system or because a market hasn't been established yet.

I feel that the level of seriousness among companies has changed compared to before. There are industries and companies that are actively disclosing that they are doing things that are good for the environment, attracting investment money through ESG investment, and trying to communicate that to consumers, so I hope this spreads further.

Japan is still not very good at communicating its message. Last year at a UN meeting, the actress Michelle Yeoh, who was a Bond girl from Malaysia, gave a speech about ethical fashion, and her presentation was excellent.

I think it's very important for Japan to send out such messages as well. There are many places doing quite good activities.

However, just because it's a global world, I'm not thinking about going abroad at all. Even without thinking that way, our company receives emails from all over the world every day.

We are a small company with 20 to 30 employees, but we get messages like "we heard from Trinidad and Tobago yesterday" or "we heard from Peru," and Google Translate is incredibly active (laughs).

I think we live in a world where as long as you communicate information saying "we are doing sustainable things," people will access you from all over, so I think it's important to express things without hiding anything. Since there are many modest people in Japan, I think we need to instill the idea that communicating information is important for society.

Now that a law for food loss reduction has been enacted, what are the targets for the Consumer Affairs Agency's future actions?

Regarding household waste, we have a network covering all municipalities and prefectures nationwide, so we hope to convey awareness. Through various experiments, we've found that simply measuring waste can reduce loss by about 20%.

Regarding the business sector, for example, we've learned that very few consumers demand that restaurant buffets always be perfectly lined up, so I think that's one area to focus on.

Currently, various media outlets are covering food loss, so consumers see footage of food being thrown away in large quantities and think it's a "waste." But conversely, they only think of it as a waste. In reality, that food waste is being burned in incinerators using our tax money. Currently, the country spends 2 trillion yen annually on waste disposal costs.

Since paper, glass, and cans are recycled, 40% to 50% of what is burned in incinerators is food. This means we are spending 800 billion to 1 trillion yen of our tax money to burn it. This is in a country with a food self-sufficiency rate of only 38%. Consumers need to know this as well.

Furthermore, municipal incinerators burn not only household waste but also waste from hotels, restaurants, and supermarkets. Most ordinary people don't know this either.

It's necessary for people to know these things, change their consumption behavior as their own problem, and communicate this to the distribution side.

This morning, I spoke with the Dutch Minister of the Environment at a symposium in Mita, and reducing food loss is a win-win for everyone. There's nothing bad about it. You save money. Conversely, it becomes a question of "why aren't we doing it?" If we change the system a little, it's a story where everyone benefits.

I think that regarding household food waste, people probably don't understand what constitutes food loss. Even for myself, there are parts where I don't know how food loss is being generated from my home.

When I cook, I basically try not to peel the skin. That's why I insist on high-quality vegetables, but I started caring about that after my child was born.

That is the most correct way. Most foods have nutrients in the skin and leaves.

Is that so? I was working hard to peel the skin, even though I thought it was a hassle.

It's a waste to throw away the skin, so I'm currently talking to chefs and cooking school teachers, asking them to create and propose menus that use more of the skin.

It's nice when your knowledge increases through fun topics. Rather than being stoic about it, I think it's good to start from where you notice things and enjoy daily life. If such consumers increase, both the sellers and the producers will start thinking about it.

But men of our generation didn't really learn about such things in home economics, so I think we lack knowledge.

When we take surveys about ethical products, men in their 40s and 50s have the least knowledge. For example, when choosing something good for the environment, young people—both men and women—say they would definitely buy the ethical one if the price is the same. But men in their 40s and 50s are not like that.

Middle-aged men of that generation don't really do the shopping in the first place. But I'm the opposite. My wife is a hard-working career woman, so I do all the shopping and cooking. That's why I go to the supermarket to shop all the time.

Many of my friends are "stay-at-home husbands." I think the world is changing little by little recently. At the nursery school, 80% of the people coming to drop off their children were fathers.

Society changes like that. So, there's no doubt that the common goal will head in a more sustainable direction.

Also, as a consumer voice, what I want to say is about the plastic plates for meat. Don't we not need those?

We don't need them.

They just increase waste.

They are very intrusive and bulky. That's why I always buy from places that sell them in just bags. It's a little cheaper that way, too.

Ideally, it would be better to have a system where meat is sold by weight, put into one large container, and taken home, which would reduce waste and allow people to take only the amount they need. I've been telling supermarket people that, but it's hard to realize.

In some shops in shopping districts, you can bring your own plate and say, "Put it in here."

I think that's much better.

I definitely want consumers to tell the shops that. Even at supermarkets, if you talk to the people cutting meat in the back, they are happy to do various things for you. If you say, "Don't you have more meat like this?" they are happy to cut it. The people on the front lines also want to be spoken to.

We should just break down the walls a bit more.

Those kinds of shops are high-end in New York and Paris, too. It's like going to a marché and having a conversation.

Europe has marchés all over town, doesn't it?

It might be good to revive the culture of shopping districts.

I like shopping districts. You can become friends and talk about various things. It takes time, but it's a very good culture.

I think various challenges have come up in today's discussion, and we've also seen what needs to be done in the future.

The Consumer Affairs Agency is a new government office created for people's lives, rather than the traditional siloed administration. Consumer movements have existed for a long time, but in the future, ordinary people should think about consumption for their ordinary lives. Japanese society itself has changed.

True value, not price or appearance, is becoming important. I think "correct consumption," where we want to use money responsibly, is becoming crucial.

That's right. I also think correct consumption is the basis. Things like "penny wise and pound foolish" are now causing various harmful effects. Consumption behavior based on a proper story will be required from now on, and I think we are entering an era where companies that communicate information properly and sell correct products will be chosen.

Yes. I think consumers want that more than people in companies realize.

Exactly. I believe companies that anticipate consumer needs, develop products and services, make efforts to reduce environmental impact, and contribute to the realization of a healthy, safe, and prosperous society through their business will be chosen. That is the consumer-oriented management I mentioned earlier.

I see. In the end, it's like "let's firmly implement the SDGs."

That's right. And I hope young people with such awareness will play a central role in society. We must make the future one where young people can shine. The future of consumption is this sustainable consumption. The future of production also lies in being "sustainable."

There are also great expectations for universities. Universities can create places where such things can be discussed, right?

Being able to discuss things on a flat level is a good point of universities. We also launched a research laboratory called the xSDG Lab last year, and within it, we created a consortium to collaborate with companies and local governments. Using such mechanisms, we want to create good examples and standards for SDG implementation based on research.

I think how we advocate and demonstrate the SDGs is very important, so I want to cooperate in that regard.

We look forward to your cooperation. Thank you very much for your time today despite your busy schedule.