[Feature: The Future of Housing Complexes] Roundtable: New Wealth Seen Through "Living Together"

Today, I would like to discuss the theme of "The Future of Housing Complexes." Post-war Japanese housing complexes (danchi) began with the establishment of the Japan Housing Corporation in 1955, and from the 1960s through the 1970s, mass construction was promoted as a public policy, primarily in urban suburbs.

A key point in discussing danchi is that it was a contemporary phenomenon where many people of similar ages—mainly office workers aspiring to own their own homes—experienced living at the same time in housing with relatively similar design philosophies that were ahead of their time. I believe the fact that relatively similar groups of people began living together in unfamiliar areas had a significant impact on our views of housing, family, and lifestyle.

On the other hand, because it was a contemporary phenomenon, similar problems began occurring simultaneously in multiple locations as time passed. Around the year 2000, issues of aging infrastructure and an aging population became apparent, making them targets for specific policies. In some ways, it feels as though we are now dealing with the "homework" assigned during the period of high economic growth. There are issues across various dimensions such as architecture, urban planning, lifestyle, and family, and there are perspectives from both the supply side and the residents' side. I hope we can approach this issue from these diverse angles.

First, I would like to ask Mr. Oe, who has been involved in this issue for a long time, about the relationship between housing complexes and policy.

In architecture, the general principle is one building per lot, but the housing complexes we imagine consist of multiple five-story slab-shaped apartment buildings. They are built in a way that does not follow the one-building-per-lot rule. In other words, their characteristic is that they contain communal spaces—something like a "commons"—that do not face the road. Depending on the scale of the complex, the extent and function of these spaces vary and are very diverse.

There are three types of management entities for public rental housing complexes: public housing (managed by local governments), the Housing Corporation (now UR Urban Renaissance Agency), and local housing supply corporations. Both the Housing Corporation and the local corporations also have housing complexes that they sold as condominiums. These differ in terms of resident demographics and how communal spaces are managed. I have had a long relationship with Dream Heights, a large-scale complex in Totsuka Ward, Yokohama, through the operation of a community cafe. Dream Heights is a housing complex sold by the city and prefectural housing supply corporations.

Regarding public housing complexes, I am currently participating in discussions at the Kanagawa Prefecture Housing Policy Council about the utilization and revitalization of the entire stock of prefectural housing. I am also involved in the review of PFI projects (a type of public-private partnership) for reconstruction. There are occasions where I think about how things should be built while looking at actual design proposals, and recently I have increasingly felt the difficulty of sustainable management.

Since the topic of management entities has come up, I would next like to ask Mr. Nishino for his perspective from the supplier side.

The roots of the UR Urban Renaissance Agency lie in the Japan Housing Corporation, but today we handle various projects. Among them, the rental department, which we now call "UR Rental Housing," has gained recognition, partly due to the effect of TV commercials.

There are about 710,000 UR rental housing units nationwide. In 2004, when the name was changed to UR Urban Renaissance Agency, there were 770,000 units, but the number has been gradually decreasing due to government policies.

Reconstruction is also progressing, and most complexes from the late 1950s have been rebuilt or decommissioned. To date, 140,000 units built between the mid-1950s and late 1960s have been decommissioned. Since 100,000 new units have been supplied since the 1980s, the total has decreased by 40,000 during this period. In addition to reconstruction, seismic retrofitting has been completed for all units where it was feasible.

On the other hand, a significant portion of the 710,000 units consists of complexes that were mass-supplied in the late 1960s and 1970s. What to do with them is a challenge for the future, but the occupancy rate for all the rental housing we handle still exceeds 91%. People might think there are many vacancies because the buildings are old and the residents are aging, but there is still a fair amount of demand. However, the aging rate is indeed rising.

On the other hand, looking at other data such as household income surveys, the figures for the most recent year, 2020, have risen compared to five years ago. Possible reasons include an increase in dual-income households and a rise in the employment rate among the young-old population.

The challenge going ahead is the presence of elderly residents who are living alone. To help them live long and fulfilling lives, we are forming communities and working on new initiatives that would have been unthinkable during the Housing Corporation era, such as monitoring services and opening markets (marche) in common areas.

91% is surprising. You mentioned that household income is rising; is that partly because there is a significant turnover in residents?

That's right. With the COVID-19 pandemic settling down, in the most recent year of 2023, 70,000 units—about 10% of the total—turned over. By the way, when we rebuild a complex, we stop filling vacancies as a matter of policy, and the 91% occupancy rate is a figure that includes these vacancies in the denominator.

Next, regarding the relationship between lifestyles, families, and housing complexes, Ms. Watanabe, what are your thoughts?

My involvement with housing complexes began when I wrote my master's thesis on the Takeyama Danchi in Midori Ward, Yokohama. It was a place created by clearing a mountain in the 1970s. Initially, it consisted only of rental housing, but in the 1980s, condominium complexes were built. Around the year 2000, when I was writing my thesis, was exactly when the aging of the population began. I conducted a survey of elderly people's circle activities there.

Takeyama Danchi also saw a simultaneous move-in of residents in the 1970s. In the "housing sugoroku" (a metaphor for the life stages of housing) of that time, everyone was expected to eventually own their own home. However, the bubble burst in the early 1990s, and many people lost the timing to buy a house, resulting in many residents staying in the complex and growing old there.

The "housing sugoroku" assumes rental housing complexes are temporary dwellings. Many residents of Takeyama Danchi did not expect it to be their final home. This awareness was likely even higher among residents of public housing complexes, which were of slightly lower quality than those of the Housing Corporation or local corporations.

In 2019, I co-authored a book titled "The Beginning of the All-Middle-Class: A Postwar History of Housing Complexes and Life Time" (Seikyusha). Thousands of survey forms from a 1965 study covering six housing complexes remained at the University of Tokyo's Institute of Social Science. The oldest complex was Kawasaki municipal repatriate housing built in 1953, and the newest was Housing Corporation housing in Atsugi built in 1961. We restored the survey data from these six very different types of complexes and re-conducted a quantitative analysis.

From this data, we can see the lifestyle exactly when the housing complexes were established. As Japan entered the period of high economic growth, the image of life in a housing complex spread. In 1960, the visit of the then Crown Prince and Crown Princess to the Hibarigaoka Danchi became a hot topic, and life in a housing complex spread as something glamorous.

On the other hand, in the late 1970s, housing complexes began to take on a negative image. Terms like "danchi-zoku" (housing complex tribe) and "kagi-ko" (latchkey kids) were born out of criticisms of a managed society. However, our book analyzes the continuity between the state of housing complexes before such images were attached and the present day. It can be said that the current state of housing complexes is the result of the people who lived the lives recorded in those documents continuing to live there ever since. I feel that the difficulty in discussing housing complexes lies in the fact that this outcome was not initially anticipated.

Mr. Suzuki, you are currently living in a housing complex, aren't you?

Yes, it's not a typical Housing Corporation project, but I live in a private condominium complex called "Shiki New Town," developed by Kajima Corporation 40 years ago. My impression of actually living there is "Housing complexes are the best!" (laughs). In my case, the timing of moving in coincided with the start of child-rearing. I feel that housing complexes are truly easy places to raise children, the community is solid, and I'm glad I moved there.

Shiki New Town has eight blocks in total, consisting of 3,300 units. I actually moved last year, but I didn't want to leave the block I was living in or the community, so I moved to another unit within the same block.

Even during the COVID-19 pandemic, children were playing within this block. This was possible because we generally know each other's faces. Schools were closed and park equipment couldn't be used, but even then, the plazas within the block became playgrounds for the children. Even if we didn't know names, we were familiar with each other, so there was a sense of security.

I think the fact that the community bond is strong and we somehow know about each other is significant. We don't know everyone in the block, but I think a sense of being a collective community has emerged.

The need to live a rich life matches the community, and for me, housing complexes are very exciting. I think the desire to live richly within a housing complex is deep-rooted, and there are many interesting aspects to them. I take photos of such scenes and post them on Instagram with the hashtag "#TheJoyOfLivingInADanchi."

The story about not wanting to move even out of the block is interesting. Is there a clear difference between the block you live in now and the other blocks?

Since all the residential buildings are built similarly, similar communities should theoretically emerge, but after 40 years, they have become completely different cultures. For example, only the block I live in still has a children's association.

I think that's because there is a child-rearing generation there, but is the influx of the younger generation due to an increase in cases where units in the condominium complex are being rented out?

Exactly. Interestingly, many households in our generation first move into a rental room and later buy a unit. Since it's within commuting distance to central Tokyo and has plenty of greenery, people who move in with the feeling of "let's try living here for now" end up buying.

Could you tell us a bit more specifically what the "rich life" you mention refers to?

When discussing housing complexes, I think there are two aspects: the hardware (physical) side and the software or community side. Regarding the richness of the hardware, the fact that there is a separation of pedestrians and vehicles is a major factor. Until about 10 years ago, I lived in central Tokyo, and in front of my apartment was a road without a sidewalk, so I lived in constant fear. However, in a housing complex, I'm not that worried even if my child leaves the building on their own. There are block parks everywhere, and public facilities, post offices, police boxes, hospitals, and schools are nearby, offering the benefit of living within walking distance. Also, living in such an environment, you often run into acquaintances. That leads to small talk, which then connects to the software side.

The reason I like the block I live in is that the activities of the planting committee members who manage the block's greenery are very active. While taking a walk, I might receive cut flowers or some rapeseed blossoms. In the meantime, both I and my child happen to meet other friends. I feel that such richness of relationships is possible precisely because we live together in a cluster.

I see. Is the need for residents to live long and rich lives also increasing at UR?

A significant portion of the department that manages UR housing is now focused on work related to richness. Previously, there were many tasks like housing maintenance and complaint handling, but recently we hear many voices wanting us to put effort into environmental improvement.

For example, the topic of child-rearing came up; even though the occupancy rate of the complexes is high, vacant shops in the facilities within the complexes are quite noticeable. Since many elderly people live in the complexes, an idea has come from within the company to match them with the child-rearing generation as a business, utilizing the vacant spaces effectively and having the elderly help with child-rearing.

The creation of rich spaces like the separation of pedestrians and vehicles, the presence of functions like hospitals and shops within the block, and the existence of some kind of autonomous management organization. Were these already considered in the 1960s and 70s when housing complexes were mass-supplied? Or is the current state the result of functions shifting over time?

I haven't visited Shiki New Town, so I don't understand it perfectly, but the units for managing condominium complexes are not always the same. In Shiki New Town, they probably have a management association for each of the eight blocks, and everyone manages it together with a shared ownership stake in the land within each block.

Among the people living there, there is a sense that "this place belongs to us," and while some blocks proactively work on how to use the shared space effectively, others do not. I feel that in the block where Mr. Suzuki lives, the space was originally rich, and the time has come when it can be used richly through just the right kind of interactions.

UR rental housing is managed by Nihon Sogo Jusetsu (JS), which is commissioned by UR. I think both UR and JS are in a situation where they don't yet have enough experience in how to create mechanisms for people to participate and how to operate them stably. However, I believe that with some ingenuity, it's possible to create the kind of richness Mr. Suzuki is experiencing now.

That's exactly right. Our block happens to be making good use of the hardware, but that is quite dependent on specific individuals. In fact, the elderly person serving as the planting committee member is a wonderful person who skillfully involves those around them. It's a block of about 500 units, but I feel the influence of one person is significant.

Conversely, under a difficult neighborhood association president, a block within the same complex can have strict rules. Recently, a very wonderful neighborhood association president passed away, and it made me think about autonomous management organizations—if you rely too much on one person, the subsequent management can be jeopardized.

Until now, the management of housing complexes has centered on hardware. However, I would like to see professionals who specialize in community building—how to use this hardware well to create a rich life—be there as well. Management fees are a very large amount every month, so I want them to squeeze out even a few percent from that. Rather, management fees should exist for such purposes.

On the other hand, if everything starts to be solved with money, there is a risk that the autonomous actions of residents, like in our block, might disappear. I thought that might have its own negative side.

One of my specialties is NPO theory, and I thought what you just said is similar to the difficulties faced by NPOs. Everyone originally gathers voluntarily, but to maintain and continue activities, they conduct business there and hire someone to stay on-site using some form of income. In that process, some cases go well and others don't. As Mr. Suzuki said, if the relationship between the "provider" and the "receiver" becomes fixed, there's a risk that only demands will be made. Conversely, if a sense of community can be maintained, they can get by with a relationship of mutual support to some extent. That balance is the difficult part.

I'd like to delve a bit deeper into the keyword "richness." While there are people in 2023 who say "Housing complexes are the best!", I believe there is a history where the supply of housing complexes progressed in the 60s and 70s with the aim of realizing a certain kind of richness.

Is the richness of that time the same as modern richness? Or has the substance of richness changed with the times, and the space of the housing complex is being redefined in a new form after coming full circle? Ms. Watanabe, what do you think?

Regarding richness, I think the objects of comparison are completely different. In the housing complexes of the 1950s and 60s, stainless steel kitchens first became a huge topic. Until then, Japanese houses were basically centered around dirt floors (doma), and cleaning and laundry were all centered there, which had drawbacks like back pain from housework, difficulty with fire, and water sources being far away.

This was replaced by shiny stainless steel that wouldn't corrode, and the parts supporting the structure of life, such as water, electricity, and gas, began to be supplied as a system. Richness was found precisely in the parts that fundamentally changed the quality of domestic labor.

Also, the household structure was significantly different then compared to now. For example, among the residents of the six complexes in 1965 analyzed in "The Beginning of the All-Middle-Class," households consisting only of a couple were about 11%, and nearly 90% were couple-plus-children households. Three-generation cohabitation was seen in a very small portion, but that was exceptional.

However, looking at Japan as a whole at that time, three-generation cohabitation accounted for more than 30% of households and was experienced by many people. Therefore, around 1965, as the shift from the extended family system to the nuclear family was occurring, it could be said that housing complexes were a symbol of the glamorous richness that represented the nuclear family.

Furthermore, I think the fact that it was an era when the working style of men in those nuclear families was changing to wage labor was also significant. The work style of working at a company was still new around the 1950s, when the agricultural population still accounted for 30 to 40%. In other words, as the nuclear family lifestyle we imagine was being established, life in a housing complex likely looked rich.

In contrast, is the richness Mr. Suzuki speaks of more about communication or the peace of mind brought about by it?

That's right. I think there is a richness precisely because one feels that things like the trust in people who greet you within the same block—which Mr. Suzuki felt while raising children—or not having to worry even if a child goes somewhere out of sight, cannot be obtained in condominiums in central Tokyo.

Stainless steel kitchens looked rich in comparison to dirt floors. We don't feel richness in stainless steel now, but we do feel richness in being able to not worry even if we take our eyes off our children. I think that suggests a new possibility that housing complexes possess.

In the 1960s, there certainly were relationships in Japan where neighbors would call out to each other or a man from another house would scold someone else's child. It was probably in the 70s that this transformed and disappeared.

Until then, trust in the neighborhood was the base, and one probably couldn't fully function in life without having such relationships. However, I think such trust declined in a way that suggested it's better to leave things to a larger social system to gain individual freedom, and that life can be fully lived even without mutual trust among residents.

However, when considering specific life situations now, as Mr. Suzuki says, it is indeed easier and richer to live with trust in the neighborhood. That is felt as something more necessary than house size, equipment, or asset value. I think it's also related to relationships with family and parents living apart, but the momentum to rediscover and re-evaluate the richness of relationships with others in the neighborhood is growing.

But while I think the awareness of trying to regain such trust exists potentially in society, I feel it hasn't been fully exerted yet. In some housing complexes, the relationships and the way space is used are changing in visible ways, so I wonder if this can be spread a bit more to society. I feel that the number of people with this awareness is gradually increasing.

The choice to let go of trust in neighbors and leave it to the system was the lifestyle after Japan's high economic growth. However, I think at some stage, values began to emerge that following such a vector is exhausting or restrictive. And while I think it's also important to know when that started, at a certain point, a certain number of people began to say that trust in neighbors is important.

Assuming trust in neighbors is an important element, can this trust-building be realized relatively easily precisely because it is a housing complex? If so, why is that? Mr. Suzuki, do you feel that you were able to build your current relationships precisely because it is a housing complex?

I do. I think Mr. Oe's point about trust being left to the system is correct, but being able to buy child-rearing as a service is actually a painful thing.

For example, my children are now 8 and 10, so they can stay home alone, but when I go out, I make sure to check in with a neighbor I know. I ask, "Are you home?" and if they say "Yes," I tell my children, "If anything happens, go to that house." If you have that kind of relationship, there's no need to hire a babysitter.

The reason why such things are possible in a housing complex is, I think, because there is shared public space. By having shared space outside, I think the recognition of being in a shared place is born through playing there, walking the dog, or having small talk. You could even call it an "extended garden." I think being there makes getting along a natural act.

It's different from joining a "Society of X" and getting to know Mr. X; it's more like someone you often run into while walking, where it starts with just a greeting and gradually turns into small talk, or while playing in the plaza you gradually hit it off, and if it starts raining, it's like "Want to come to my place?" I think the fact that housing complexes share the outside space is a big factor.

The potential of greenery is also very large, and in my complex, communication through plants often occurs. Things like "the flowers are beautiful" or "this wild herb is edible" are unique to housing complexes with shared spaces.

Mr. Nishino, are there many cases where people commit to such shared spaces by taking care of them or conducting various activities?

In UR rental housing, the actual management of greenery is handled by a commissioned company, so such communication might be less likely to occur. However, Japanese people like places with lawns, and apparently, if you lay down a lawn, everyone sits on it. In UR rental housing, we provide large lawn areas in public spaces, and it seems that when a lawn is laid in a place where the distance between residential buildings is wide, someone sits there, and then someone else comes along, sowing the seeds of communication. There is also data that lawns become cool spots, which is an environmental benefit.

Public spaces with lawns are indeed one of the commons. The markets you are researching and practicing, Mr. Suzuki, are also initiatives that form a commons.

The housing complex market is held with about 30 shops by renting a nearby "neighborhood park." It's a collection of small shops, but by gathering individual shops, the atmosphere and function of the place can be changed. Markets are so essential to life that the gathering of people to barter goods is said to be the beginning of cities.

Shopping in modern Japan has been left to systems like supermarkets and the internet. But markets not only allow locally made goods to be consumed locally, they also have the primitive goodness of commerce where people can buy and sell things while talking face-to-face.

Looking at it from the perspective of the local economy, such markets in London reportedly create 13,000 full-time jobs. In Japan, they tend to be seen as temporary events, but they can be positioned as an urban strategy and conducted as food policy or food supply for low-income groups. Our desire to open markets in housing complexes also stems from wanting to create a place that belongs to no one.

A community is not something you can create by saying "Let's make one." But commerce is something anyone can get involved in without a specific reason. In the market, I make sure to always have shops for bread and vegetables that everyone buys, with the aim that a community can be built through commerce.

That's interesting. It's exciting to be able to visualize the scene of the market.

On the other hand, as is commonly discussed, I believe we cannot avoid touching upon the challenges currently facing housing complexes, starting with the aging population. Mr. Oe, what are your thoughts?

The aging of residents is one factor, but in recent years, there has been an increasing number of cases where many foreign residents are living in housing complexes. I think it is important to address the issue of a lack of communication with these new residents.

Shibazono Danchi in Saitama Prefecture has a particularly high ratio of foreign residents, and the public Ichiyo Danchi, located on the border of Yamato City and Yokohama City in Kanagawa Prefecture, is also known for its high foreign residency ratio.

The problem of insufficient communication among residents has long been pointed out in these complexes. While the term "multicultural coexistence" is often used, I believe the mechanisms for realizing that coexistence will change as long-time residents gradually leave and the number of people who moved in later increases.

On the other hand, housing complexes face other challenges such as responding to aging and deterioration, and the utilization of vacant storefronts. However, it is not as if these issues are only serious in housing complexes.

Housing complexes were planned and built in the suburbs to accommodate housing needs as cities expanded. Large-scale versions of these are called New Towns, and the problems of the suburbs as a whole are projected onto these complexes and New Towns. Out of a population of 37 million in the Tokyo metropolitan area (one metropolis and three prefectures), there are just under 10 million in the 23 wards, meaning over 20 million are outside of them. The challenges of the suburbs affect all of those 20-plus million people. I think it is necessary to view the challenges of the suburbs as being visible in a concentrated way within housing complexes.

I believe the deterioration of the complexes themselves is also linked to the challenge of creating processes for adjusting various interests and making decisions when rebuilding. Mr. Nishino, what is your take on this?

Since UR rental housing has UR as the sole owner, we do not need to reach a legal consensus as one would with a condominium. However, we must obtain the understanding of the residents for them to relocate. Even if they are to return, we have to arrange for them to live in temporary housing, such as by mediating another UR complex.

When mediating other complexes, it is rare to get 100 out of 100 people to agree. However, we have established a rule where, after holding an explanatory meeting, we spend two years providing thorough explanations and obtaining understanding for the move before concretely starting the rebuilding. In the case of complexes where a strong community has been formed, there are sometimes requests for everyone to move together or for everyone to return together.

Are there any symbolic challenges or initiatives from UR's perspective?

Since we are strictly in the rental housing business, we must invest costs into the safety and security of the residents. Those costs are recovered through rent, but balancing the two is quite a high hurdle.

Also, as part of our social mission, we are increasingly involved in what we call "Regional Medical and Welfare Hub Formation." This involves utilizing land created through rebuilding to attract medical and welfare hubs open to the community, or partnering with local governments and local NPOs to provide monitoring and regional support services.

I feel that depending on the location, some complexes can successfully utilize the land after rebuilding, while for others it is difficult. What are the challenges when rebuilding old housing complexes?

Yes. I mentioned an occupancy rate of 91%, and the reason we can maintain that is because the rent levels and demand are in balance. However, such complexes are often in suburbs about 10 or 15 minutes by bus from a private railway station. While the occupancy rate goes up, the management side is quite difficult in terms of the balance with rent levels.

I mentioned 710,000 units currently, but that number will likely decrease a bit more in the future. This is because there are cases where costs cannot be recovered through rent even if rebuilding is carried out. In such cases, current residents will be asked to move to other complexes after obtaining their understanding. How to downsize while ensuring the residential stability of the residents is one of our management challenges.

Mr. Watanabe, what are your thoughts on the contemporary challenges of housing complexes?

I would say it is the aging population and areas with a high ratio of foreign residents. Foreign residency is particularly prominent in public housing complexes. Since it is difficult for foreign nationals to rent housing in Japan, they inevitably end up gathering there. Examples include Shibazono Danchi, Nishikasai Danchi, or industrial cities like Toyota City. Because the residency rate of foreigners increases, issues with consensus-building also arise.

Japanese housing complexes have a unique management style with a dual structure consisting of a management association and a neighborhood association. While these can sometimes create good governance, the system is hard to understand for someone who doesn't know the circumstances. It is a very difficult challenge to achieve coexistence in a situation where there is a system that is hard to explain to begin with, different languages, different cultures, and different age groups and family styles.

Aging is also a crucial challenge, but this point becomes a serious problem specifically in public housing. This is because rent has not changed for a long time. Public housing uses a system where rent is determined by the household income, so low-income elderly people can continue living there at low rents.

At UR, the current rule is to review rent every two years.

That's right. On the other hand, one could say that because rent does not change in public housing, it creates a situation where it is difficult for the elderly to leave. Even though the living environment is not barrier-free and not necessarily favorable, there are no places in the market where they can relocate at an equivalent rent level. New housing supply by local governments is also not happening amidst this population decline. Consequently, 60% to 70% of the residents in aging public housing are elderly. In such a situation, talk of mutual support becomes unrealistic.

A characteristic of housing complexes is that the people who have lived there for many years started with roughly the same age group and income. If there is turnover, it becomes diverse to some extent, but complexes with a high proportion of elderly residents are those that did not become diverse. In truth, a mechanism to create diversity was needed somewhere, but it has not been incorporated into housing policy until now.

That said, it is difficult to break down something that has become fixed. When the National Stadium was rebuilt, the eviction of Kasumigaoka Danchi became an issue. Of course, I understand the feelings of the residents, but I cannot help but feel there was a problem with the policy that forced the acceptance of that rent level in that location. I think what is happening in housing complexes is not just aging, but aging in a situation where residents are becoming unable to move.

The issue of foreign residency should also ideally be explored in more diverse forms within the market, but the reality is difficult. That kind of contradiction is concentrated in housing complexes, and various problems are occurring in a narrow space.

On the other hand, housing complexes have the advantage that it is easy to provide services collectively by living together. For example, an NPO to support foreigners was created in Ichiyo Danchi. The fact that they are concentrated areas for the elderly can also be a merit depending on how you think about it. It is possible to build services targeting a specific resident demographic.

Actually, even in public housing, there are situations where the elderly population is turning over. There are a very large number of applications from elderly people for public housing. Conversely, private rental housing is very strict regarding the residency of the elderly, so the demand for public housing is high in terms of being able to live with peace of mind. Looking at this situation, I think there is a positive side where public services for the elderly, or even private and non-profit services, become easier to organize.

That's true. Toyama Danchi in Shinjuku is a complex where 60% of the residents are elderly, but on the first floor, there is a space called the "Machikado Hokenshitsu" (Corner Health Room), where nurses operate something like a school health room. I think such services have the advantage of being easier to reach precisely because it is a region at the forefront of these issues.

On the other hand, Toyama Danchi is large-scale and succeeds partly because of its location. The reality is harsh for suburban municipal complexes with only two or three buildings. It is important to consider these challenges case by case. I don't think housing complexes have no future, but it is a fact that there are many problems.

In the context of the discussion about reclaiming trust in neighbors that had been left to the system, there are situations where community activities are being born, while on the other hand, there are serious situations that cannot be handled by that alone. How can we lead these to solutions as policy issues? It seems that the space of the housing complex is taking on all the contradictions our society currently faces, such as contract issues for foreign residents, elderly people living alone or requiring care, and the challenges faced by low-income earners.

What I feel as a resident of a housing complex is that the problem is that everyone would rather not participate in the activities of the management association or neighborhood association if possible. If things continue this way as the population ages, I feel they will just gradually weaken. I mentioned earlier that the children's association survived, but actually, this year I told them not to dissolve it because I would serve as the chairperson. While local festivals are also decreasing, I feel we haven't seen a solution yet for how to maintain motivation.

On the other hand, there are quite a few cases where new cafes or community facilities are built in shopping streets that had become vacant storefronts, so I think new communities might be born from such places.

I grew up in a detached house within a New Town, and such places risk being discarded if no one lives there and no one takes an interest. However, housing complexes bring many people together; they have mutual interest and feelings. Even if there are challenges, I have seen many times how the situation changes completely when there is even just one "interesting person" who can take action when a problem becomes visible.

The "interesting people" Suzuki-san mentions are people you rarely meet through the routes of community organizations like neighborhood associations or management associations. How to get such people to come forward is something I also thought about at Yokodai Danchi in Yokohama, where I was involved in area management for many years.

In Yokodai, we opened two vacant storefronts as a free space called "CC Lab." While promoting a project called "Renaissance in Yokodai," we made the rent free, provided funding for operations, and attempted to unearth activities within the community. In Yokodai, the station-front space designed by Kengo Kuma and the outdoor space of the North Danchi handled by Kashiwa Sato are wonderful, but at the same time, I felt a real response from the attempt to create a place like CC Lab. Unearthing new talent and resources is very important.

Communities like neighborhood associations and residents' associations should naturally exist, but there is a limit to what they can do alone. However, having multiple layers allows various people to access the community. I think suburban communities until now have had few such layers.

Of course, there were likely various NPO activities, but those activities often lacked regionality, while the region was handled in a public-interest way by the neighborhood associations that firmly anchored the area. I think it would be good if a mechanism were unearthed where people could emerge in a way that is more rooted in the region and different from neighborhood associations.

In fact, in Yokodai, people from the neighborhood associations were surprised to see so many different activities at CC Lab. They weren't negative about it at all, and I think the fact that an atmosphere of "let's do something together" was created is something to be valued from the experiment in Yokodai.

The case of Yokodai is a key story for thinking about the future of housing complexes. From Mr. Nishino's position, are there any clues for thinking about what comes next?

When I talk to private business operators, they often say, "Housing complexes are a treasure trove." They want to try various things in them. It might be a kind of experiment or a business, but people from various industries are thinking about doing something in housing complexes.

Since UR is in the position of managing rental housing, we previously kept our distance from such initiatives, but that has changed recently. For example, we are conducting test runs for autonomous driving within complexes, providing monitoring services for the elderly, or testing DX technologies.

I feel that if we successfully incorporate the ideas of these private-sector people and link them to business, we might be able to reach areas that were previously lacking.

Returning to the community is a good thing, of course, but I feel that new technology will be necessary when it comes to supplementing the parts that don't run smoothly. Housing complexes might be spaces where it is easy to implement new technology.

That is a very important point about housing complexes anticipating the future. From that perspective, I feel there is potential for universities and educational institutions to get involved.

With support, I am also working with colleagues from SFC on an activity called the "Lab for Creating the Town of the Future." What I find interesting is that when young students get involved in regional issues, the relationships in the region change slightly. For example, I have witnessed children and elderly people looking forward to the time they spend talking with students, and small-scale exchanges occurring.

Collaboration between universities and housing complexes can also be seen in regional cities. Toyoake Danchi in Toyoake City, Aichi Prefecture, is near Fujita Health University. Toyoake Danchi is old and consists of five-story buildings without elevators. There, elderly people who lived on the 4th and 5th floors moved to the 1st and 2nd floors, and the 4th and 5th floors are rented cheaply to medical students. Then, day services related to community-based integrated care moved into vacant storefronts, and that has become a kind of internship site for the Fujita Health University students.

For the students, it's a cheap place to live and an internship site, and the other residents become the users of the services. Moreover, for the elderly, interaction with the younger generation is the best form of rehabilitation for social participation.

Even during the COVID-19 pandemic, having students nearby apparently led to things like being taught how to use Zoom. I think this is also a merit of living together. The fact that challenges create opportunities for residents to interact is unique to housing complexes.

Beyond involvement with students, there are aspects triggered by child-rearing, as in Suzuki-san's case, and I think there is an interesting quality where interaction between the elderly and different generations leads to their own well-being.

This relates to the earlier discussion about how to design diversity within a housing complex.

Students leave after four years, but conversely, I think the fact that they leave makes it easier to create opportunities for interaction.

Ms. Suzuki, what is the key for you in thinking about the future of housing complexes?

I think housing complexes used to have a dark image of a managed society. The famous American journalist Jane Jacobs also once criticized housing complexes for their lack of diversity. However, many people who live in them say they love their complex, and this is true overseas as well. Knowing both of those opinions, I started living in Shiki New Town, and it turned out to be really great.

I think housing complexes originally existed as symbols of modernization, but now they are becoming places to reclaim human relationships, community, and interaction with local people as a "commons" once lost. Moreover, because they have problems, there is an aspect where experiments can be conducted, which makes me very positive, and it becomes an opportunity for people who want to make something positive happen. I felt that today's discussion itself suggests the future of housing complexes.

It sounds more positive and fun when Suzuki-san says it than when I, in my 70s, say it (laughs). I hope the experiments and commons currently taking place will open up a bit more to the surrounding urban areas. One way to look at it is to view the housing complex as something that people living nearby can also use together.

On the other hand, there are challenges. When people from the outside come into a place that has been managed with one's own management fees, or managed as one's own property in the case of a condominium complex, it becomes necessary to think about how to harmonize and how to bear the costs. However, I think it is very important to overcome such challenges and think about housing complexes that are open to the region.

I believe housing complexes have that many resources. They can host experiments and they have talent, so the potential is very large. And because the problems of the suburbs as a whole are expressed in a concentrated way, the solutions can be spread to the suburbs as a whole. I feel that we can draw such a large vision from housing complexes.

What I felt from everyone's talk today was that the flat image of housing complexes is quite different from the reality. Housing complexes are very diverse, multi-dimensional, and colorful existences, and I thought we should look again at their richness and potential. Thinking about the future of regions and suburbs is likely very close to thinking about the nature of our lifestyles. Housing complexes are spaces that provide important suggestions for thinking about that.

Thank you very much for today.