[Feature: Confronting the Gender Gap] Roundtable Discussion: Confronting the Gender Gap

Thank you very much for coming today despite your busy schedules. I believe this will be the first all-female opening roundtable discussion for Mita-hyoron.

Last year, "30% Club Japan" was established with the aim of increasing the proportion of women on corporate boards, and Ms. Goto was appointed as Vice Chair. As universities are also participating in this project, Keio University was invited to join, and President Haseyama has become a member.

While movements for women's empowerment are becoming more active in Japan like this, Japan's ranking in the World Economic Forum's "Gender Gap Index" released last year fell significantly from 110th the previous year to 121st. Looking at this, I feel that women's empowerment in Japan is still only halfway there.

Given this situation, we have invited female executives active on the front lines of corporate management today to discuss the realization of a society where women can thrive.

First, Ms. Goto, could you explain the purpose of 30% Club Japan?

The 30% Club itself is a non-profit global campaign launched in the UK in 2010. It is currently active in 14 countries, and the number of participating countries continues to grow. It started because the percentage of women in top management layers, such as boards of directors, remained low and was not growing in the UK. While the introduction of quotas was being advocated, the idea was that "rather than being forced from the top, the corporate side should increase the ratio of female management through its own efforts."

In the UK, Deloitte participated as one of the founders, and because of that connection, we decided to support the launch in Japan.

The goal is to raise the ratio of women—who are the most numerous minority among the diversity in key management decision-making bodies, including boards of directors—to a healthy level. We believe a healthy balance contributes to strengthening corporate governance, promoting sustainable growth, improving international competitiveness, and ultimately building a sustainable Japanese society. Since increasing the ratio of women in key decision-making bodies cannot be discussed without promoting the overall advancement and appointment of women, we will also conduct activities for that purpose.

People who want to promote this through the commitment of corporate top management themselves gather to exchange various opinions and share know-how to move forward.

How many companies are currently involved?

There are 51 members in total, 20 of whom are from companies in Japan's TOPIX 100 and 400.

Recently, we signed a memorandum of understanding on cooperation regarding the promotion of women's empowerment with Keidanren (Japan Business Federation), and we intend to work together to exchange information and opinions, hold events, and disseminate information externally. What is important is for the heads of major companies to participate as a "personal matter." That is the shortcut to changing Japanese society.

We are also creating various working groups. Currently, the most active is the Investors Group. In addition, a Media Group has also been launched.

I would definitely like to see it develop significantly.

Indeed. We want to realize a society where women can thrive in order to further revitalize Japan and increase the speed of growth.

The group's goal is to have women make up 30% of the top layer, including corporate auditors and executive officers, by 2030. However, we are not asking every company to absolutely reach that point; rather, we tell them it is fine if each company sets a target value that suits them and the top management commits to leading toward it.

Thank you. Since we have people from various industries here today, I would like to hear about your respective fields. Ms. Machida, how about you?

I have been the executive in charge of women's projects since 2016. This is a network of many related media and projects within the company and group companies. It was launched to support women at various stages with different ages and lifestyles, and to help them be active and energetic in society, and it continues to this day.

The recent "121st in the Gender Gap Index" was a shock. However, a crisis is an opportunity. I believe that by bringing together people who share a sense of crisis and awareness of the problem, it can become a force for changing society, and I think the media has a role to play there.

On March 3, our GLOBE editorial department and Ochanomizu University will co-host an International Women's Day commemorative symposium titled "Us at 121st: How to Change the Gender Gap," with special cooperation from the New York Times, inviting gender-related editors and directors from the Times in the US (Note: Postponed due to the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic).

In addition, in the "Dear Girls" print project developed every year on International Women's Day on March 8, we handle themes surrounding women; for example, last year we featured "unconscious bias." A booklet summarizing the series of articles is also used in classes for high school and university students. We have received feedback that using it in class provided an opportunity to think about the issue.

Ms. Kudo, since you are in banking, I imagine it is a workplace with many women. Is there anything you are doing to ensure that women can reliably thrive in society?

Ranking 121st in the Gender Gap Index is certainly a shocking number, but looking around me, I feel that the treatment of women and the fields where they can be active are improving. I think the reason this number was poor is likely due to the small number of women in top management layers and the lack of women's advancement into the world of politics.

For example, looking at the young employees at our bank, I think they have a mindset of working regardless of gender.

That's true. When I have meetings, I see women more often than before.

It has really become a normal thing. On the other hand, for management and politicians, there is the accumulation of past history, so I think there is a difficulty in that the ratio of women cannot be raised immediately.

In Japanese society, seniority still exists, so things like fast-track appointments are difficult. There is also the traditional corporate culture, and I think time is necessary.

What about the initiatives at Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation?

Since a bank's most important management resource is its people, we position human diversity and making the most of people as our greatest growth strategy. Based on that thinking, we have been working on promoting women's empowerment since around 2005. At first, it was support for work-life balance—hiring a certain number of women and having them "work without quitting." Next, we focused on career support.

I think the support systems for childcare leave and such are substantial. When considering career support, it is important whether women are able to advance their careers, and for that, it is necessary for women to enter the arena of decision-making. This is not just about management, but must be increased more within daily operations.

Childcare leave and reduced working hour systems are things that society and companies should provide. We should have them work full-time as much as possible, promote telework so they can return to society quickly after childcare leave, and make working hours flexible. Without these measures, no matter how many numbers the government sets or how much they push, women's experience levels won't rise, so I don't think they will be able to thrive easily.

Regarding taking on management positions, women tend to raise the hurdles for themselves, so we conduct leadership training for women at two different levels.

Also, we need to respond to differences in family structures. Currently, dual-income households make up 20% of those in their 40s, but 80% of those in their 20s. The bank also supports men's participation in childcare, and in terms of support for balancing work and nursing care, SMBC Nikko Securities in our group has created work systems such as three-day or four-day work weeks.

Ms. Otani, I imagine you have experienced various companies and felt the differences between industries firsthand.

I first worked at a Japanese company for about nine years, then did marketing at foreign-affiliated companies for about 20 years, and returned to a Japanese company the year before last.

What I feel now, comparing my time at a Japanese company before and returning to one now, is that "while it is progressing, it is quite slow." There are parts where I think, has it only progressed this much after 20 years? At the foreign-affiliated companies where I worked, there was no gender gap, and it was common to raise your hand and go for a position if there was an opportunity. For overseas assignments as well, people with the ability who wanted to go went, regardless of gender. Of course, you had to take responsibility, but I almost never felt discriminated against as a woman there.

At the Japanese company where I first worked, even if you got married or had children, there were transfers every two years, so I felt I couldn't build my life as I wished. I wanted a way of working where I could hone my specialized field and stay in Tokyo, so I changed jobs to a foreign-affiliated company and decided to gain experience in the marketing field.

At Lawson, my current workplace, we have introduced various systems recommended by the government, but there aren't many women who want to be in management. I even hear voices saying, "Don't promote me." Even if I say, "You can do it," the number of people who actively raise their hands is limited.

Nearly half of the directors are women, but they are all outside directors; there are no women yet who have risen through the ranks from within, and I also came from the outside to become an executive. We are doing training so they can rise from within and have introduced enviable maternity and childcare leave systems that didn't exist in my time to support them, but the pace is quite slow.

As you say, I think women have a tendency to hesitate to raise their hands even when there is a chance, and to be cautious about volunteering themselves.

The female staff at Keio University are also very talented, and ideally I would like to see more of them active in management positions, but they are not raising their hands as much as we would hope. Perhaps because they are so capable, they set high hurdles for themselves and tend to hesitate to take on management roles that involve the risk of failure and responsibility. I also feel that a Japanese mentality that is passive toward challenges lies in the background.

That is exactly right. In our group as well, becoming a manager seems to be a very high hurdle. There are people who back down saying, "I haven't received education to exercise leadership," or "I can't lead men." It is important not just to say "Keep at it, keep at it," but to create systems where they can feel secure about moving up.

Therefore, I am thinking of introducing a sponsorship system. Currently it is only for the management level, but it is a system that stays close to them not just when they are moving up their career, but also in their work beyond that, providing multifaceted advice.

In the case of men, I think there is naturally a "pull" from superiors, and this is something we do consciously. If you just promote them to management and then throw them out to do their best on their own, I think it's tough, especially for women. For men, networks seem to form naturally, and everyone seems to support them normally.

Sponsorship can be replaced by the word mentor, but Ms. Kudo, how is it at the bank?

At our bank, we have a mentoring system for women around the time they become a section manager. It is not at the level of management members or department head candidates.

We, on the other hand, are strengthening from the top, and have introduced the system at the point where we decide whether or not to make someone a next board member, and I am looking after several people myself. It's not just about mentoring, but also using the superior-subordinate relationship to provide opportunities for challenges and actively support them.

Since there are only a few women at the executive level, we are also trying to create a system where men can pull women up.

That's a good initiative. I didn't have a mentor myself, but since being an executive is an important duty, I thought it would be good to have someone who can give advice before and after appointment.

I don't know if men receive advice through something other than a mentor system, but in their long history, I sometimes feel that men have a way of sniffing things out in various places for some reason.

I think so too. Networks are formed spontaneously. I don't know if it's built into their DNA (laughs), but it's very difficult when a woman is suddenly dropped into an all-male environment and told to be active.

Exactly. If someone says, "You're not in a position to be taught," that might be true, but I think it's different just to have them tell me about their experiences and methods, or give me feedback.

Also, perhaps Japanese companies are weak in general management education, regardless of whether it's for men or women.

Media, especially newspapers, has a lone-wolf image regardless of gender, but how is the mass media industry?

In our company, we don't have a mentor system regardless of whether someone is male or female. Since people go through their respective positions and gain experience as they go, it might not have been needed much.

However, in my case, I have opportunities to interact with external companies as the person in charge of women's projects, and I often hear that "the more serious a woman is, the less likely she is to raise her hand for a management position." But if you give such people a little push and put them in a post, the number of examples where people say "Oh, I can do it" increases. By increasing role models with various backgrounds like that, young people can also feel secure and take a step forward.

Last week, when I interviewed Ms. Atsuko Muraki, former Vice Minister of Health, Labour and Welfare (published in the evening edition of the Asahi Shimbun on March 6), she said that those who raise their hands are not necessarily the ones who can do the job. Rather, she said that hesitant and reserved people often turn out to be very capable once they actually try it. Therefore, I think support from those around them is very important so they can seize opportunities without hesitation.

After that, it's top leadership. Whether they can show a strong will continuously. However, if you push it too hard, negative opinions inevitably come out, like "We forced them into the position but they're no good." Instead, give a push to those who are hesitating, saying "Why don't you try it?" If those people produce results, it becomes a success story, and if it's proven that it wasn't an impossible task, the number of people following them will increase.

To improve the Gender Gap Index, it is essential to create a flow where many companies move forward with a sense of ownership and speed. In an aging society with a declining birthrate, this will also lead to women's power being further demonstrated.

I would like to ask what you all think about affirmative action (positive measures to correct disparities). Affirmative action is good in the sense of actively appointing women, but it is sometimes said to be reverse discrimination. Some universities implement it in faculty recruitment, but how is it at your organizations?

In our Deloitte Tohmatsu Group, we have people in various professions such as certified public accountants, tax accountants, consultants, and lawyers, but basically, like a bank, people are our assets. How to have talented people comfortably demonstrate their individuality and work freely is directly linked to customer satisfaction.

How to generate innovative and flexible thinking from such an environment is very important, and for that purpose, unearthing buried women and having them demonstrate their power to the maximum has become a management issue.

Until a little while ago, promoting women's empowerment felt like a social contribution, but now I think it is an important management strategy that absolutely must be done. Therefore, we have created a D&I (Diversity & Inclusion) committee directly under the CEO and are promoting the utilization of women under a strong commitment to set and achieve numerical targets.

Since we set very ambitious numerical targets, it's not exactly affirmative action within that, but sometimes it might be thought that we are prioritizing women.

I am also sometimes asked within the company if men are being discriminated against by prioritizing women. At those times, I say that women have been discriminated against until now. While you all were wearing clogs (getting a leg up), those people were wearing iron clogs and doing their best while suffering. I say, "Isn't it okay to take off those iron clogs for a bit?"

It means "We will do it until it becomes equal." I think it's important for the top management not to yield to resistance and to work hard without flinching.

At the foreign-affiliated companies where I worked, there was no affirmative action. There were companies where about half of the management positions were held by women, or where there were already more women among the executives.

In Japanese companies, men sometimes go out for drinks or go for a smoke together, and important decisions are made there. They talk in those informal settings, and things somehow go in that direction. Women aren't invited there and can't get in, so I feel a bit of a wall there.

That's really true. Now, we tell people to do decision-making inclusively, and we thoroughly view it as a problem when decisions are made in such informal settings. It's no good to do behind-the-scenes coordination in some unknown place and decide things secretly. We have to change the culture.

It's difficult, isn't it? Also, when you question women who don't actively want to be managers, they ultimately say, "I'll end up having to do housework and childcare as a 'one-op' (by myself)."

Men just don't come home early. They say, "Why do I always have to be the one to go pick them up, make dinner, and put them to bed all by myself?" Then, naturally, they say "Management is impossible." While it's important to provide mentors within the company, I honestly think it's difficult unless the systems at home and in society are also in place.

In a 2016 survey by the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, the daily time spent on housework and childcare for couples with children under six was 7 hours and 34 minutes for women, compared to 1 hour and 23 minutes for men. Although there is a slight upward trend for men, this extreme difference ultimately leads to the burden falling only on women. This is also a major reason for hesitating to take on management positions. This must be changed along with the issue of social ways of working.

That's right. In a longitudinal survey of adults by the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare conducted for those aged 26 to 35, 81.4% of women continued working after marriage. I think there is a large difference in awareness between generations regarding dual incomes.

The generation gap is also large, isn't it? Since the side that decides company systems and measures is currently in their 40s or older, the gap between the rule-makers and the rule-users might not be fully closed.

On the other hand, I don't mean to dampen the conversation, but even overseas, when women become corporate heads, there are cases where the men quit their jobs. As things get very busy, there might be times when you have to rely on one side for household matters. Until now, women were in the position of following. I think it would be good if roles could be chosen freely and done by either women or men without prejudice.

My husband is a "stay-at-home husband."

There are people like that at our bank too. I think that's fine.

I also have my husband bear most of the housework. I can't exactly say that with a straight face, though (laughs).

The problem is unconscious bias. For example, only the woman might be told by both sets of parents when getting married, "You'll become a full-time housewife, right?" or when she gets pregnant, "When are you quitting your job?"

In the end, people around us and supervisors have shown such unconscious biases that they consider natural based on past cultural backgrounds, without any ill intent. This has been ingrained in both men and women without them even realizing it.

While this is also a role for the media, it is important to increase awareness. I believe things will change significantly if business owners, managers, and those around us interact with self-awareness.

I'm sure everyone has faced various hardships to reach their current positions. While there are likely advantages to being a woman, I imagine there were also many experiences where you had to break through an invisible glass ceiling.

Ms. Machida and I are from the generation before the Equal Employment Opportunity Act. In a job interview, I was asked, "A woman's happiness is marriage and raising children, so why did you become a certified public accountant?" I promptly excused myself from that accounting firm and went to a foreign-affiliated one. If I start there, there's no end to the stories (laughs), but fortunately, I have never faced severe discrimination in my work.

When I joined the firm, there was only one female senior, and she told me, "It's okay. You won't be discriminated against. You just have to work twice as hard as the men." So I thought that was the case and worked long hours, sacrificing a lot of my private life. That way of working would be problematic today.

Because of that, and because there were so few women, standing out just by being slightly better than others meant I was given various opportunities. I took on those small chances positively without thinking that I might not be able to do it.

In my case, the challenges increased the higher I went. When working as a specialist, you just need to focus on self-improvement, but when it comes to organizational management, the required skills are completely different.

Leadership becomes necessary, you have to move people, and I was constantly worried about how to unite everyone's hearts. I wish there had been a few more opportunities to experience that in stages or learn it systematically.

In particular, the job of unifying an organization cross-functionally at the executive level was a massive challenge. It was extremely difficult to get male leaders—who all had different motivations and their own strong opinions—to move as I intended through vision and influence alone, without controlling personnel or money.

Looking back, I think men have had opportunities to learn how to navigate skillfully within an organization from a long time ago, or perhaps they have support from those around them. I feel like I fought a fairly lonely battle.

I didn't feel the glass ceiling much. One reason is that I have walked a path centered on cultural projects, which are very unique even within a newspaper company. Since I was the first person hired specifically for that track, there weren't many people specializing in that field.

Although women were still rare in the industry, because it was a cultural business, there were no particular disadvantages, including in overseas negotiations. I might have just been lucky, but I didn't have any experiences that were significantly traumatic.

When I was posted to Kyushu as the Representative of the Seibu Head Office, a president of a local company was surprised, saying, "What, a woman is the newspaper representative?" Rather than the pressure of being the first female head office representative, I just thought of every day as sales, attending various meetings and meeting people. "Culture" served as a bridge, and I truly enjoyed interacting with everyone. Those connections are still alive today.

That's why it's okay to try and fail, but it's a waste to give up before even trying. I think it's important for many people to just try first.

Come to think of it, when I took the position of general manager, I was once told, "Women can't speak frankly, so please don't use a woman after all." But my boss said, "You'll understand once you work with her, so please give her a chance," and two years later, that person became a big fan of mine. I was very grateful for that boss's presence.

I was in the first class of career-track employees hired after the Equal Employment Opportunity Act took effect. Although they hired us for career-track positions, I felt they were confused about how to use or treat us.

I wore a uniform, served tea, and when I answered the phone, I was told, "Put a man on." Since I was only allowed the same amount of overtime as assistant staff, the volume of my work experience decreased compared to the men who entered in the same career-track positions. It seems that was the system according to the Labor Standards Act at the time.

However, when I moved to the international department in my third year at the bank, there were many people with work experience overseas, and they were used to women being in the business arena abroad. So, in terms of doing the work, it didn't matter that I was a woman. At first, they were worried about me going on overseas business trips, but in terms of the work itself, they let me go all out.

However, becoming a management professional was a hurdle for me; I strongly wanted to stay as a specialist in the work I liked for as long as possible.

That's true, isn't it?

Perhaps due to the difference in how women and men are raised, I had an image of management as moving people or standing above them, and I thought I couldn't do that.

Once I was actually in that position and thought about it as something we could all create together, I felt more at ease. I felt that if it was about motivating everyone and showing them a direction, I could do it. In that sense, I think I was able to remove my own barriers by giving it a try.

Ms. Otani, since you have experience in various companies, I imagine the barriers were different in each.

During the nine years I was at a Japanese company, I was transferred every two years, so I didn't even have time to feel a ceiling. After that, I was at foreign-affiliated companies in environments where I could do things if I wanted to, so I haven't felt it much.

Even now, with the support of the president, I am allowed to do various things across departments, and basically, no barriers or ceilings come to mind.

That is wonderful. As in Ms. Goto's story earlier, having someone nearby who can say, "No, no, you'll understand once you work with her," when a customer says, "A woman is a bit..." regarding a woman leading a team, is very significant.

Yes. It's not just about getting them into positions; there must be people to support them so they don't fail. Our generation probably just grew up on our own after being left to our own devices, but from now on, we must not only put them in positions but also properly nurture them and help them succeed.

Do you have any ideas or experiences regarding networking for women to thrive?

I think women's networking power is weaker compared to men's. Therefore, for internal networks, we create small groups for each level so that people just before promotion can hear various stories from those who have already been promoted.

What we are launching now is an external network. Young people who have been promoted need to exchange information not only within the company but also with people from various other companies. So, to create a place where they can grow further by building business-related networks, we recently had the "SheXO Club" launched. This club targets women active as organizational executives and next-generation leaders aiming to have a high perspective as true leaders.

I want to create a place where people in similar positions can network broadly without being restricted by company boundaries.

Since there haven't been that many women in the business arena until now, I think creating such opportunities is very important, as you said. For child-rearing, there are many books, but for women in management, I think a network is necessary as a place to share unwritten knowledge and experiences and to provide stimulation.

Eventually, I hope those networks won't just be categorized as "women" but will have various types.

One major reason Japan fell to 121st in the Gender Gap Index is the political section (from 125th to 141st). In politics, I feel that many things are decided behind the scenes—not exactly in smoke-filled rooms, but out of public view—and experience in political maneuvering is also necessary. I suspect the reason for the low ranking is that women cannot enter the arenas where important decisions are entrusted. What do you think?

The Act on Promotion of Gender Equality in the Political Field was established in 2018. This is called Japan's Parity Law, but because it is only an effort-based goal and not a mandate, progress is slow. Just creating the law is not enough; we need to use the law as leverage, work on it with significant awareness, and increase the ratio of female legislators.

A few years ago, UN Deputy Secretary-General Amina Mohammed, who was deeply involved in the establishment of the SDGs, said during a visit to Japan, "First, try voting for female candidates. If women are involved in decision-making alongside men, it will undoubtedly produce better results than if it were only men."

Naturally, half of society's members are women. Since half of the beneficiaries and providers are women, society will not change significantly unless women speak out more as their representatives and get involved in various things, including policy.

The business world is moving quite a bit now, so it's more about politics, isn't it?

The economic score of the "Gender Gap Index" has risen by about 2 points, but the political score continues to fall.

That's right. Among the indicators, both education and health have been within the top 100 since the survey began, and health was even 1st at one point (2017, etc.).

The topic of "househusbands" came up earlier, and it is important to speak up together so that men can also choose the lifestyle they like. While other countries are doing this with such a sense of speed, if Japan proceeds at a natural pace, it might fall even further.

Exactly. Japan has been left far behind by India.

I believe the issue is more about women's sense of anxiety than a difference in ability between genders. Empowerment is important to solve that. In fact, many women in our editorial and business departments are active with discretionary power, so they don't feel much of a sense of inferiority for being a woman.

Of course, both men and women make mistakes. However, we must create a society where people don't need to restrict their possibilities by thinking "it's impossible for me" from the start, and I believe companies have a responsibility to do so.

It's about women also gaining the ability to do that with confidence, isn't it?

If I may speak a little about myself, despite there being so many active women, I was the first woman to become a Vice-President of Keio University. In a sense, that might have been affirmative action.

Of course, there were failures, and there are still various challenges, but I believe the real test is what you do after taking the position, not the evaluation before. Forming a consensus while gauging the timing might be something women are better suited for.

That's true.

Deciding things top-down is important in some situations, but I go about my daily work thinking that team management—finding a good direction while sharing ideas together—might be something women are better at.

Do you have any message or expectations for the men of the world, especially those over 40?

Looking at them, I think many people do not believe in the power and value that diversity creates. Perhaps they have never had such an experience, but the ideas born when people with different opinions, different genders, and different values come together are completely different.

There are many times when I've thought, "Oh, I'm glad I called them," when I had someone with a completely different background join, rather than someone with similar thoughts to mine.

I wish everyone would affirm the value born from diversity, transcending various values not limited to gender, but I find it regrettable that it doesn't seem to be believed in much right now.

There are often people who say, "Why do we have to take such a detour? It would be faster if we proceeded with unspoken understanding (Aun no kokyu)," aren't there?

That's right. However, in my experience, proceeding with ideas refined over time like that produces much better results.

That's because you hash it out well beforehand. There are various opinions from many sides saying, "Isn't that wrong?" and the resulting product is very good and strong.

Not just regarding gender, I believe that for companies to grow and for Japanese society to become stronger, we must push diversity more to the forefront.

The market is globalizing, and people's lifestyles, ways of thinking, and preferences are diversifying. Within that, companies must find potential demand, provide products and services, and do business. Since responding quickly and flexibly to diverse and rapid market changes is required, I believe it will be difficult for companies to truly survive unless they pursue innovation through the realization of diversity.

More companies need to accelerate this as a strategy, truly making it "their own business."

In the era of mass consumption, for example, competition in selling home appliances was a world where competitors were visible and winning or losing was easy to understand. But now, competition spans across sectors and industries, competitors are invisible, goals are unclear, and the content to compete on is diverse, necessitating a transformation of business models. In such an era, I believe ideas are born by working with more people who have various perspectives.

The top leaders who have joined the 30% Club all feel this firsthand. Since many are global companies, they have a strong feeling that they cannot compete in the world without diversity.

Men are also so different that you can't lump them together as "men."

My son is 20 now, and his values are already completely different. But in a few years, they will be entering companies.

Yes. We really have to think about diversity by generation as well. Young people have truly different values, so if we don't take various measures, they won't follow us.

People in their 40s are a generation that also demonstrates their strength as managers. The topic of "Ikuboss" (bosses who support childcare leave) often comes up, and they are exactly the middle management generation that interacts most with the younger generation.

It is very important for that generation to encourage taking childcare leave and to speak up in workplaces where it is difficult to take leave. Especially in the case of men's childcare leave, it is difficult until one person in that workplace takes it; once one person takes it, there is a flow where others follow suit. The initial breakthrough often seems difficult without the supervisor's understanding and support.

Including such things, since they play the role of connecting the management generation aged 50 and over with the younger generation, I think the role of managers in their 40s is important.

People in their 40s may no longer be able to fight with the styles and values they have aimed for until now, and some may find it painful.

But as you said, middle management in their 40s is a very important role. I think a company's competitiveness changes significantly depending on how flexibly those middle managers can work to propagate the top's will downward.

That's true. Even at Keio, I feel there is a large gap in awareness regarding participation in childcare between the generation of so-called professor-level faculty and male faculty in their 40s who are right in the middle of raising children. Unless we respond while being aware of the generational gap, we won't be able to secure good human resources even in a university.

I'm sure it's the same for companies, but I feel that an organization will not become strong unless someone with a sensitivity to change is at the top.

I would be grateful if you could give a message not only to women but also to the Keio students currently studying at Keio University and the young Keio University alumni.

First, as a matter of awareness, I want people to properly understand that there are diverse ways of working and to think flexibly about their life design and life goals. I believe the era of joining a large company and staying there for a lifetime is already over.

I want women to start with the premise that their possibilities are infinite. Glass ceilings will likely be gone by the time current students enter the workforce, and I want them to grow steadily, including their own ways of working.

Also, I want them to move forward without fear of becoming the top leader. Women often tend to feel that being second is easier because they don't face as much pressure, but the world you see by being at the very top is truly different. I'm not saying everyone must become a top leader, but I want people to have a broad perspective not just in Japan but anywhere in the world and challenge various possibilities.

I also hope that young people will not restrain themselves from the start, but rather pursue their possibilities while exploring what it is they truly want to do.

Of course, living in society involves various setbacks. However, if you keep your aspirations alive, a path will surely open up ahead. I want them to believe in their own potential and live positively.

I also want them to be conscious that they themselves are carrying the responsibility for the various branching paths as role models for the next generation. Moreover, the field of activity is truly globalizing. If the gender gap in Japan does not close with a sense of speed, I hope to see more people who say, "Then I will do my best overseas."

Future students will be entering a competitive arena where goals are even more unclear. Therefore, I don't think there is a need to deliberately seek correct answers immediately during their student days. I hope they will enjoy exchanging opinions with others and enjoy a chaotic world without trying to be "model students."

I believe Keio is a globally open university. Whether working in Japan or overseas, I think being global while maintaining pride as a Japanese person—or rather, the good qualities of being Japanese—will become a strength. I would like the university to foster individuals who value both, and I hope students become such people.

I have changed companies and worked across different countries. I have always been flustered in the midst of change, but it was fun in its own way. That's why I think it's important to "do things that are fun."

Instead of doing something because someone forced you to, if you sniff out something that looks "fun," just try it. Otherwise, it won't last. I believe that by doing so, you will naturally gain strength and be able to continue, so I definitely want you to find something fun.

I believe Keio University is an educational institution where women can thrive freely. Students can enjoy their student life without being very conscious of gender discrimination.

However, it seems there are quite a few young female Keio University alumni who, despite never having thought about gender-based constraints at university, realize that a glass ceiling actually exists in society and become disillusioned.

The current glass ceiling is a transitional thing, and society is truly transforming. Amid globalization, Japan will likely be forced to change rapidly as well.

Therefore, even if you happen to notice a ceiling and feel disappointed now, there is no need to be too preoccupied with it. It is important to value your own identity in a changing society and pursue what you love while exploring possibilities. Life is long, so you just have to keep going without losing yourself or getting too caught up in ups and downs.

The networking mentioned earlier is very important. We are in an era where you can choose from a wider variety of jobs than in the past. There is the freedom of choice to move to another company if one doesn't fit, or to work across national borders. In such times, by valuing various encounters, networks can be utilized in your work. I myself have been greatly helped by this.

I have a real sense that if you value encounters and build networks both inside and outside the company, various forms of help will naturally come your way. So, I don't want you to be disappointed right away.

I agree. The glass ceiling won't be there forever.

A certain amount of patience is necessary—or rather, if you just jump somewhere else immediately saying "I hate it here," it won't become your own nourishment, so you should stick it out for about three years. Nowadays, people might not be able to wait three years (laughs), but I think it's good to think flexibly after showing some perseverance. Things won't be bad forever. I believe the times are moving.

As Ms. Otani said, I think it's important to be able to feel that something is "fun." Looking back at my 20s and 30s, there were many times I thought, "Maybe I'll just quit," but I enjoyed the work, so I continued. I want you to find something fun. To that end, if you need to change jobs, it's also important to expand your network so you can access various information.

Also, I think it's important to let unpleasant things slide. If you take them too head-on, it becomes stressful, so there is the option of just letting it go while thinking "There they go again" and not really engaging with them.

That's the power of insensitivity.

I also really hated going to the office first every day to wipe the desks, wash the ashtrays, and make tea. I did it while thinking, "How long am I going to keep doing this?"

I also went an hour before everyone else to clean my seniors' desks and fill the pots with hot water. But I also made the male junior who was one year behind me do it. Because that's what the person at the bottom does.

Amazing. But you're right.

There were many unpleasant things, but because I was very curious, the desire to do this or know that became my motivation, and I've made it this far. I worked hard thinking, "This will be a funny story someday." I want people to overcome things in that way.

I believe female students at Keio University are active and free within the school, competing with men—or rather, managing them (laughs).

According to Tokyo Shoko Research, the number of female presidents from Keio University ranks 3rd, but in Teikoku Databank, it has been 1st for two consecutive years. According to data from Asahi Shimbun Publications, the number of female faculty members at Keio has also been 1st for 10 years. I sincerely hope that female students raised in a free and open academic culture that doesn't make them feel gender differences will continue to be active in society with energy, joy, and curiosity.

Since you all have shown us those role models, I expect that the next generation of role models will follow in your footsteps and take flight from the Juku one after another to be active globally, not just in Japan.

Thank you very much for today.