Sweat Pleasantly in the Sauna!

Unfortunately, I graduated during a period of very poor economic conditions after the oil shock, and since I couldn't find a job, I joined my father's company. Then I was told, "We're just about to open a sauna, so you be the manager" (laughs). I started without even knowing what a sauna was.

I see, so that's how it happened.

Saunas back then were electric saunas at about 100 degrees Celsius—they were like torture devices (laughs). They were places for massages or where wealthy people stopped by before going out drinking.

Eventually, they became places to stay overnight, and now, people have come to enjoy low-temperature saunas with löyly (pouring water on heated sauna stones to generate steam). Today, young fans are enjoying them. I never imagined it would turn out like this, so I'm quite moved.

My father was a huge sauna lover and went all the time. When he said, "Let's go out and play," it usually meant something like, "Let's go to the sauna together" (laughs). At first, I thought, "I don't want to go into a hot room," but as I was dragged along, I gradually grew to like saunas.

After I started working, I used the sauna as a refuge to heal my tired body. Once I had a bit more freedom, I became interested in and visited saunas across the country and even around the world, becoming obsessed with their charm.

Wanting to give back to the saunas that helped me and to assist even a little in the popularization of saunas, I published a mook titled "Saunner" (2014). I also wanted to advance various research on saunas, so I established and am active in the Japan Sauna Institute.

I first encountered saunas during my first year as a working professional. One day my boss took me, and at first it was incredibly painful, but after the sauna, I got into the cold plunge, and while resting for a bit afterward, I experienced a pleasure as if my whole body was being liberated. I thought, "This feels amazing," and since then, a life of going to the sauna once a week began.

Later, I met up with an old friend for drinks for the first time in about 10 years, and he said, "Actually, I love saunas." At the time, there weren't many people in our generation who liked saunas, so we hit it off immediately.

So you found a kindred spirit.

He and I talked about how we'd like to run our own favorite sauna shop someday, but we felt we had to know the authentic Finland first, so we went to the Finnish Embassy.

The people at the embassy told us, "If you want to do a Finnish sauna, you have to go to the real place." So, three of us flew to Finland, felt the difference between Japanese and Finnish saunas firsthand, and started a company called "Mizu Japan" to promote Finnish saunas.

To be honest, saunas during the bubble era were nap quarters for drunks, and that accounted for about 80% of the income. Since there were no mobile phones yet, during the day, individual real estate agents used them as substitute offices, and phone calls for information exchange would come in. It was a state where the real estate agents were taking all the calls in the shop.

That's incredible.

That gradually went downhill after the bubble burst. But eventually, Finnish-style saunas centered on löyly started becoming popular, and young people with a positive image of saunas began to emerge.

Then, with the Japan Sauna & Spa Association becoming a major sponsor, the image improved all at once with the "Saunner" mook that Mr. Harayama and his team put out.

Until then, saunas had a very negative image; people would say a hot, humid commuter train was "like a sauna," or "collapsing in a sauna" became a common phrase, making them seem dangerous. I wondered why something so wonderful was treated so negatively. The concept of "Saunner" was to change that image. I felt we should properly promote the original form of the sauna as "refreshing, crisp, and pleasant."

As you said, in the past, there wasn't much of an atmosphere where you could say your hobby was the sauna.

No, there wasn't.

Now, the number of young people like Mr. Oizumi who can say "my hobby is the sauna" has increased significantly. I'd like to think we were able to provide a catalyst for that.

Also, shortly after this book, the manga "Sado" (The Way of the Sauna) by manga artist Katsuki Tanaka was huge. "Sado" is short for the Way of the Sauna, and it conveys the charm of the sauna in a unique tone. For example, the feeling of "the sauna feels so good" is expressed with the word "totono-tta" (aligned/perfected). This manga was read by a great many people.

That was big. In essence, the state of being mentally liberated when jumping from a hot state into cold water was called "totono-tta." This really hit the mark.

Yes, yes. That's right.

Katsuki Tanaka, who was a sauna beginner, draws at length in the manga about why he came to love saunas. It starts with things like being scared to go in at first, or there being strange old guys there (laughs).

In Finland, even ordinary houses have sauna rooms, and there are areas for outdoor air bathing where you can bathe in the outside air. To put it in Katsuki Tanaka's terms, that's how they are "aligning" (totonoete-iru). That space is very important.

The people at the Finnish Embassy said, "A sauna is a sacred space for communication." They said that's a big difference from Japan. I've heard that in the past, people even gave birth in saunas.

I think Japanese saunas are clean, but as a vague impression, they are still thought of as smelling like sweat or being a place for older men to enjoy.

That's right. I think the expression "pleasant sweat" is correct in the sense of "comfortable," but in reality, the moment you are sweating isn't actually that pleasant.

The pleasure comes from jumping into water or being exposed to the outside air from there, reaching that "totono-tta" state. In the past, people talked about the stimulation of the moment you enter the water being fun, but the mental pleasure wasn't really talked about much.

I think so too.

In Finnish saunas, the general way to enter is to pour water and bathe in the steam, which is called löyly. And saunas over there are generally set at about 50 to 70 degrees, which is a milder setting than Japanese saunas.

The way to use the sauna there is to raise the perceived temperature all at once by doing löyly. Löyly is the Finnish word for steam.

Is it like the feeling of saying "that was a good löyly" in the same way we say "that was a good soak" in Japan?

In our place, we pour water automatically every 20 minutes for the löyly.

We've taken to calling the saunas at Toho "auto-löyly" (laughs).

The image of löyly is like an invisible steamed towel suddenly covering your whole body. You're in a hot sauna, but then another wave of invisible heat comes at you. Then, when you fan it, gusts of hot air come at you.

A sauna is not something you endure. That's the first difference.

Young people don't like enduring things (laughs).

As Mr. Orimo said earlier, I don't think the purpose of a sauna is to sweat. The purpose of a sauna is to warm the body, and the cold plunge is for cooling that warmed body. Then, after the sauna and cold plunge, you relax in the outside air, letting the air and wind hit you to return yourself to a normal state.

I call this set of three the "sauna bath," and it's only with that that one can truly understand how to enjoy a sauna.

When we set up a tent sauna at Zushi Beach, I thought about jumping into the sea to cool down, but when I tried it, I didn't need the sea. When you sweat as much as you can in a tent sauna and step outside, the scorching Zushi coast turns into a highland. That's how pleasant the wind over the sand is.

Currently, the main activity of "Mizu Japan" is setting up tent saunas at camping events for people to enjoy. We also talk to people who run campsites about whether they'd like to introduce them.

How many people does the smallest one hold?

Four people. The largest one I have now can hold about 20 people at the same time.

With 20 people, the stove must be large, so it wouldn't be easy to store in Japan.

That's right. It's quite a challenge.

Recently, there are things called "sauna toasters," which are saunas that can be towed by a car. Like a camper van.

It seems tent saunas were originally used for military purposes. When I tell Finnish people I'm doing tent saunas, they react like, "Oh, the military ones."

In Finland, every family has a sauna room in their house. So, the tent sauna was developed for when people thought, "What if I go somewhere without a sauna?" That's why ordinary Finnish people don't really use tent saunas.

Is that so?

Every house has a sauna, and when they go to stay at summer cottages on weekends or long holidays, there's one there too, of course.

So they almost never go out of their way to set up a tent sauna. However, that's not the case in Japan, so whether it's Zushi Beach or a snowy mountain, I think tent saunas are a very convenient tool for doing saunas in those kinds of places.

During the Great East Japan Earthquake, we set up a tent sauna in Onagawa, Miyagi Prefecture, as part of the Sauna & Spa Association's reconstruction support activities. This was quite difficult, but it was well-received. Since it was very cold at the time of the disaster, they were very happy.

Since it was a disaster area, we couldn't be picky. There was a river behind us, so I thought if they could warm up in the tent sauna and just wipe off the sweat, they would be satisfied at the very least.

The Japan Sauna & Spa Association is actively involved in social contribution. In disaster areas, the first problem is the lack of baths. Preparing a large amount of water for a bath is difficult, so a sauna can be set up more easily.

That's right. But even so, it's a lot of trouble, and the local people cooperated very hard. An elderly man at the evacuation center acted as the sauna attendant by himself, picking up scrap wood from the morning and spending hours warming it up. And the people of the fishing village, who I thought wouldn't be satisfied without a bathtub, were incredibly happy with the sauna room.

Saunas are surprisingly subtle; in the old-fashioned sense, the "flavor" against the skin is completely different depending on whether the area around the sauna room is wood or tile. In essence, even with the same stove, radiant heat comes out differently. Even with löyly, what kind of steam comes out depends on the stones.

Oizumi: There's also quite a difference between electric stoves and wood-burning stoves. Finnish households are also leaning more toward electric ones now.

Wood is hard work. It takes time to warm up. Our shop naturally uses gas. When doing it with a tent sauna, gas is surprisingly easy, but wood is a job that takes hours.

We talked about the military earlier, but I think when you're tired or having a hard time, a sauna really saves people.

"Sauna" is a Finnish word, and in Japanese, we might call it a steam bath or a hot air bath, but I believe a "sauna-loving" DNA is definitely built into the DNA of Japanese people.

To begin with, public baths until the Edo period were facilities where you surrendered your body to steam. The current habit of soaking in a bathtub changed gradually during the Edo period. So, originally, Japanese people might have liked steam baths.

It's not so much that they liked it, but that it was the only concept they had.

Exactly. Of course, there were hot springs, but I believe the bathing method directly connected to daily life was the steam bath. Steam is simpler than boiling a large amount of water.

Yoritomo's father, Yoshitomo, was also killed in a steam bath around Mino when he put down his sword and went inside.

Saunas originate from Finland, but Hanjeungmak is a Korean steam bath, and in Russia, it's called a banya. Placing oneself in steam is something that exists in various forms all over the world.

That's true. Outside of hot springs, you don't hear much about cultures in foreign countries where people bathe in heated water. I suppose it's a matter of cost and effort.

It's probably quite rare to enter a sauna in a hot country. Even in Japan, saunas are more popular in Hokkaido than in Okinawa.

That's true, but while Japanese sauna sales are certainly highest from December to March, July and August aren't bad either.

Oh, is that so?

Maybe they go to use the cold water bath.

In the end, perhaps they want a stimulus for a body that has become sluggish and weary. It might also be that the Japanese summer is particularly unpleasant.

Mr. Oizumi, what season do you usually go to Finland?

It's usually during the summer.

That's the best time, isn't it?

Yes. Though I actually want to go in winter. There's also something called a smoke sauna. It's a sauna where you light a fire to create smoke, then vent it all out before entering. I haven't experienced it myself, but those places are staged with a very solemn atmosphere.

Mr. Harayama, have you been to the Finland Village in Koumi Town, Nagano?

Of course I have. That place used to be owned by the Finnish Chamber of Commerce, didn't it?

A man named Yukitaka Yoneda from Nagoya, who is the executive director of the Sauna & Spa Association, bought the whole thing, and now it's like a paradise for saunners (laughs). I hear they are doing smoke saunas there now.

The one in Koumi is called a pit sauna, which is a sauna made by digging into the ground. I don't think there are many smoke saunas in Japan.

Normally there is a heater and smoke is vented through a chimney, but a smoke sauna isn't like that; it heats the entire hut like a bonfire inside the house. It's dangerous for people to be inside then, so you enter after the hut is warmed up. Therefore, the walls and surroundings are covered in soot. It's a truly primitive sauna. Your body can even turn black.

I feel that the more saunas evolve, the more they degenerate, and that the older saunas are the true, wonderful saunas. In other words, smoke saunas came first, but because they were dangerous or inconvenient, they evolved into electric ones with chimneys. However, I think the older they are, the better they feel.

I interviewed Dr. Makio Nakayama directly the other day, and he told me that the standard of about 17 degrees Celsius for cold water baths was decided by the Spa Association.

That's right. But lately, everyone is telling us to lower it (laughs).

Basically, there aren't many cold water baths in Finland. It's cold enough if you just go outside. The same goes for Russia. So, the culture of the cold water bath is unique to Japan. I think using a chiller (cooling water circulation device) specifically to cool the water is also unique to Japan.

Lately, it's all about lowering the temperature of the cold water bath. People like Katsuki Tanaka say it should be below 15 degrees.

Some people say it's more stimulating if it's lower.

That's why we have two. One at a normal temperature and one for the enthusiasts that is just outrageous (laughs).

As for 'singles' (water baths with single-digit temperatures), those machines break easily. When we lowered the cold water from 17-18 degrees to 14 degrees, it broke in six months and cost us a fair amount of money (laughs).

Is that so?

Apparently, the system itself is quite strained by cooling water that much. The original idea was that 20 degrees would be sufficient.

I think the optimal temperature is a matter of balance with the sauna room. In other words, it's a balance between how much the sauna room can heat the body and how much the cold water bath can cool that heated body.

Truly, no two saunas are the same. The sauna rooms in each facility are all different, and the feeling changes depending on where you sit. It's different whether it's crowded or empty, and of course, it's different in summer and winter. It's fun to find the way you enjoy the sauna most within all those variables.

Exactly.

There's a reason I coined the term "Saunner." People who surf are called surfers. When a surfer catches a wave, no two waves are the same. I think going to a sauna is the same as that.

A surfer paddles before catching a wave. That's the sauna room, and entering the cold water bath is like catching the wave and taking off (laughs). In other words, I believe the sauna and the cold water bath are a set.

It really is about how you enjoy it. Going up a mountain in North Furano in winter, getting piping hot in the sauna room, and then everyone jumping into the fresh snow and screaming was incredibly fun (laughs).

It's an event. It's one way to enjoy it.

Ultimately, it's about how you find the fun and enjoy yourself.

Before the bubble economy, Japanese saunas only thought about "how hot can we get it." It was an endurance contest between shops. Like, "Our shop can go up to 120 degrees" (laughs).

And the customers would say, "Oh, wow, this place is 120 degrees!"

Among saunners, that style is called "Showa Strong" (laughs).

It really was like that. Everyone was working hard to raise the temperature. You won't find many places at 100 degrees now. It makes your nose hurt (laughs).

But there are people who like that.

Yes, there are people who say, "This brings back memories."

Those people travel all over the country to find saunas like that.

But they still exist, you know.

Yes. If you look for them, they're there.

The current mainstream is medium temperature and medium humidity, so probably 80 to 85 degrees.

Experts say "70 degrees is fine," but if it's 70 degrees, customers complain. My place is around 80 degrees.

As Mr. Oizumi mentioned, Finnish saunas are about 50 to 70 degrees, but places like Sky Spa are on the lower side.

They are faithful to the basics, so to speak, with a setting that brings it closer to a Finnish sauna.

Even people in Tokyo say they "want to go all the way to Yokohama just for Sky Spa." First of all, there's no TV in the sauna room. It's a precious shop.

That might be one of the big differences.

Experts say things like, "Is there a TV in a nice bath at a hot spring resort?" I think that's true, but I don't have the courage not to put a TV in (laughs).

Apparently, people from Finland are surprised to see people watching TV in a sauna room. But I think it's also interesting to pursue that kind of uniquely Japanese sauna style.

If it's medium temperature, you can stay in longer, so you can watch TV. Of course, there have been TVs since the Showa era, but in those days, things like sumo or pro wrestling were good because they were settled in three or five minutes (laughs). Baseball is surprisingly bad. Sometimes not even one batter finishes.

Pro wrestling was popular because it's interesting no matter when you start watching.

Nowadays, some companies even have "sauna clubs."

It seems they are popping up spontaneously in various places.

When I talk to people for the first time, quite a few say, "I'm a saunner too."

Those young customers are basically "good customers." Not just in terms of spending money, but they have good manners and know how to use the sauna properly. They don't splash their sweat around, and they use the sauna in a way that makes others want to follow suit.

I've heard that in the past, there was a common flow of having a drink after work and then saying, "Well, shall we go to the sauna?" In short, a boss would invite his subordinates to the sauna.

Yes, of course.

You basically enter a sauna buck naked, right? It's said that saunas melt the armor of the heart, and being naked certainly shortens the distance between people.

Finland uses saunas for diplomacy. They invite dignitaries and enter the sauna together at official residences or embassies. I think young people today have probably realized this original way of using them.

It's a place for communication.

Yes. In a sauna club, both the manager and the rank-and-file employees are naked. Isn't it effective as a place where you can talk on exactly the same level? Like the sauna club of Company A seeking interaction by entering the sauna with the sauna club of Company B.

That's a great idea.

I think it's fair to say that the number of young people enjoying it in that way has been increasing lately.

Since you're inside a sauna room, you don't talk as much as you would in an izakaya. That might be why it feels more relaxed.

Conversely, people almost never talk while in the bathtub. But because it's a sauna room, you can exchange a word or two. In that sense, the sauna is superior.

That's true. In Finland, it feels like everyone is chatting there. And then there's the outdoor air bathing after you step out. There is always a space to rest outside, and people talk quite a bit there.

The atmosphere there is wonderful. It's like a locker room after a match—people drinking vodka or playing chess.

Surprisingly, people don't often collapse inside the sauna room. The problem is after they leave. The bathtub is actually much more dangerous.

Yes, the bathtub is far more dangerous. Saunas only get highlighted when an accident occurs, but accidents happen hundreds of times more often in bathtubs.

You wouldn't believe how many accidents happen at hot springs.

The fact that Hideki Saijo collapsed in a sauna over a decade ago is still brought up today. Even though it's a rare case, someone is planting the idea that it's dangerous (laughs).

I suppose there's an image that saunas are bad for you.

But young people today don't overdo it in the sauna room, do they? They don't spray sweat everywhere like the older men used to.

That's true.

Though the older guys jumping into the cold water still do it with a look that says, "Impressive, isn't it?" (laughs).

But from a young person's perspective, I think being in a confined space with a 60 or 70-year-old man is an extraordinary experience. I think that's a good experience to have. Naturally, you end up talking to total strangers across generations. Just a quick word in the sauna like, "You're sweating well today."

I once went alone to a Korean-style sauna in LA's Koreatown, and nationality didn't matter at all. Black, white, Asian, people with tattoos, children—everyone was naked in the same space. I felt it was a very peaceful environment.

The fact that all kinds of people can gather naked in such a confined space, being together in a situation where no one is carrying a weapon, is a truly wonderful thing.

I really think so. Literally unarmed.

But in movies, the scene where a yakuza gets killed is almost always a sauna (laughs). That's not good.

I've actually been asked if they could use our place for filming (laughs).

The early saunners never say, "I won't go unless it's a high-end sauna room." Whether it's a sauna with great löyly or an electric one, they find a way to enjoy it for what it is.

We in the industry tend to rank things ourselves. However, the enthusiasts find enjoyment in everything and appreciate the different flavors of each place.

I agree. Also, if you go every day, your body starts to acclimate to that facility. It's like your body adapts itself to the facility (laughs).

That's interesting.

Basically, with a hot spring, you just dip in, say "Ah, that feels good," and you're done. But with a sauna, there are so many ways to go about it; you really have to use your head. You can actively create your own way to enjoy it, and every place has a completely different sauna. They are all over the world—not just Japan, but Finland and Estonia too. I don't think there's any other genre of treasure hunting as wonderful as this.

I call myself a "Pro Saunner," and what I mean by that is I want to be able to make a living solely through saunas. In other words, just as surfers live by riding waves, I aim to be someone who can live by taking saunas (laughs).

That's amazing. Nowadays, there are several sauna lovers who act as consultants for us, which we are grateful for. Until now, we could only hear the opinions of manufacturers and equipment installers, but now we can hear the customer's side.

I want to work hard in various ways to ensure our younger customers never get bored.

Sir, saunas aren't something you get bored of. Once you realize how good they are, you keep doing it until the day you die (laughs).

I hope that's the case (laughs).

That's why high-quality sauna facilities are important to make people realize that goodness in the first place, and I recommend Toho.

Thank you (laughs).

As long as the sauna room, the cold plunge, and a proper resting space are solid, other things like massages or food are secondary to me.

After that, it's definitely tent saunas. In other words, combining it with activities. Melting into nature is at the root of Finnish saunas. I think young people are very receptive to this as well. However, there aren't many places to do it in Japan, are there?

That's true. But recently, we were allowed to do it in the courtyard of the United Nations University in Aoyama. We couldn't provide a pool, though. Also, riverbanks are great.

Tent saunas are so much fun.

It feels surprisingly good.

Just being naked in nature is fun in itself (laughs).

No doubt about it.

I think it's a human instinct to want to get closer to nature.

If you ever invite me, I'd be happy to join you anytime (laughs).

*Affiliations and titles are as of the time of publication.